JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  December 2007

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION December 2007

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Climates and Wood availability [was Re: [M-R] St. Joseph misunderstood]

From:

Roger Brock <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:24:54 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (200 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

A few bits of classical bibliography might be relevant:

A. Burford *Craftsmen in Greek and Roman society* (Thames & Hudson 1972)

R. Meiggs *Trees and timber in the ancient mediterranean world* (OUP
1982)

R. Sallares *The ecology of the ancient Greek world* (Duckworth 1991)

P. Hordern & N. Purcell *The corrupting sea* (Blackwell 2000) - not
purely classical, as some will know

Roger Brock (Classicist Lurker)

-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rochelle
altman
Sent: 21 December 2007 06:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [M-R] Climates and Wood availability [was Re: [M-R] St. Joseph
misunderstood]

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture

Seems to be a bit of confusion about the topography of the area.

Jerusalem and Nazareth, although only around 60 kilometers apart, do not
have the same climate or vegetation. (Everything is condensed in that
strip of land roughly the area of New Jersey -- including climates.)

Nazareth is located in the mountains of the lower Galilee halfway up
between the fertile coastal plain of the Sharon Valley to the West and
the Upper Galilee to the North and North-East. (Mount Hermon is the
North-East end of the Upper Galilee.) Much of the Galilee is on its side
and covered with (mostly) coniferous forest (lots of pine). 
It does get heavy rains in winter and in many ways has a climate similar
to the Pacific NW -- except that Seattle has (or had) rain almost every
day -- not just in winter.

The road from the coast to the Galilee was, and is, the pre-historic
Salt Road from the Mediterranean Sea inland and climbs up to the Beit
HaKerem plateau. This section is what is called the Carmel Mountain
range. The name Carmel is from "kerem" -- vineyard. Land good for
vineyards is not particularly fertile and is on the arid side. The other
major crops on the plateau are olives and pasturage. Again, not
particularly fertile and on the arid side, but certainly not desert. 
These have been the major crops on this plateau for at least 4,000
years.

At the end of the Carmel plateau is the Biblical village of Rame (which
village, like the road itself, is still there). The salt road then
starts climbing again to the Upper Galilee (ending at Rosh Pina [ancient
name -- literally head of the corner] where it turned South to descend
to the Sea of Galilee and went around the Sea to climb back up. No
trading caravan or sane traveler would take the direct route that
climbs/descends to Damascus; it is very steep and long. 
So, we know which road Paul took to Damascus.)

What about Rame? It was a major turn off point from the salt road to the
lower Galilee and a short-cut to get to Jerusalem. The North-South
track/road between Rame and Nazareth was, and is, a crest road. (You do
not need a permanent to curl your hair; just take public transportation
on this road and hope you do not meet an on-coming truck. Its width is
limited by being a crest-road.) From Nazareth, you were then at a
mid-level point in the Galilee and had by-passed the Upper Galilee en
route to Jerusalem (and this route was also the only reasonable way to
get to the Sharon Valley from the Galilee).

To go from Nazareth to Jerusalem you took the Eastern track/road and
descended to the Sea of Galilee -- meeting the old Salt Road that came
down from the Upper Galilee and went around the Sea -- then turned
South, passed through Samaria, and then climbed up to Jerusalem.

While Nazareth is part way up in the hills, Jerusalem was, and the
ancient core still is, an acropolis in the Judean hills. As in all such
natural fortresses, nothing much grows (then or now) on an acropolis.
(Photographs from the late 19th-century from another hill show a
collection of plastered stone buildings in the distance and shepherds on
large vacant areas of pasturage strewn with rocks and broken stone in
the foreground.) The hills to the South-West around Jerusalem are
terraced -- many ancient and repaired -- and are planted with olive
trees. The olives indicate the climate in terms of rain fall and many of
these olive trees are more than a thousand years old. To the West,
descending from the acropolis, are mainly reforested hills. To the
South, the continuation of the Judean hills are extremely arid; however,
the extreme aridity of full desert dates to the Roman era and later. To
the North you run into the Galilee.

The Galilee was, and still is, forested with fertile plateaus and arid
rocky sections (particularly in the vicinity of Tel-Dan) among the
tilted mountain sides. It is not at all a desert. (I rather doubt
Josephus' description of 100 rich villages of 30,000 people each -- it
would have been a continuous metropolitan area squeezed into the
plateaus. I do accept fertile and populous.)

In other words, in the time of Jesus, there were forested mountains and
fertile plateaus to the North -- including Nazareth, fertile plains
towards the coast in the West, and arid lands to the South.

So, yes, there was wood available. Olive wood, however, is available
only in small portions good for small boxes and other small
manufactures. Conifers, in general, yield lumber good for chairs,
stools, shelves, doors, door-frames, bed-frames, etc. Most conifers (not
Douglas Fir or Redwoods -- neither available there and then) also are
limited in the width of the lumber and are not the most durable of
woods. The cedars of Lebanon were prized for their girth, height,
strength, and durability. The lumber made excellent pillars, and, as it
could yield wide widths as well as having a pleasant odor, it also made
excellent panelling -- but it was very expensive.

Herod's new town of Sepphoris was about 20 km from Nazareth. So, there
was plenty of wood -- and work -- available for a jointer, a
cabinet-maker, but not much for a general carpenter. (Separation of
types of areas of expertise in every field -- artisan or farmer or
household -- dates back to Sumer and Akkad. A place for everything and
everything in its place meant exactly that. To call someone a
"jack-of-all trades" is not a compliment. So, the translation does make
a difference.)

To answer your question, George, the dominant building material was
stone. Mountains of that around between Jerusalem and the Lower and
Upper Galilee. That's not any type of adobe-like mud-brick construction;
it's plastered stone. Wood was not used in general construction. Wood
framed construction of Northern Europe and the US was never common in
the Middle-East -- not many forested areas away from the coast.  Wood
was used in door and window frames, doors, furniture, shelving, and
household items. etc.

Hope this helps clarify the wood issue somewhat,

Rochelle

>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and 
>culture
>
>In the 1st C. probably a reasonable amount although between desert and 
>a couple millenia of deforestation certainly it was not like being in 
>the Pacific NW of the US.
>
>Lebanon was famous for its cedar groves, and I seem to recall there 
>there were still a fair number of groves and modest woodlands further 
>south, particularly closer to the coastal areas.  Then there would have

>been imports of wood, much like today, from places like Egypt and 
>Persia.
>
>"Jointer" does actually make a fair bit of sense, too.  What was the 
>dominant construction material of the Nazareth/Galilee/Jerusalem region

>during the period in question?  I see a lot of "adobe" type structures 
>(yes, I know its not adobe like in the American Southwest).  I know 
>wood figured in construction, but to what extent?
>
>George (speculation is the Romantic's friend)
>
>On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:03:07 -0800, Diana Wright wrote:
>
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and 
> >culture
>
> >Given that the only reference we have is one word in the NT, what 
> >proof could there be?  Please.
>
> >And how much wood would there have been around Nazareth anyway?
>
> >A tekton would have done any working with wood there was to be done 
> >-- fixing a door, making a box, repairing a wagon or a barrel, making

> >a yoke or a stool, carving a spoon.
>
> >DW

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager