medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Scott Carson wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2007, at 10:55, John Briggs wrote:
>> Scott Carson wrote:
>>> On 17 Feb 2007, at 10:27, John Briggs wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1) Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament.
>>>
>>> Consecration to the episcopacy is not, in itself, a Sacrament. Holy
>>> Orders is the Sacrament, episcopacy is a gradus within Holy Orders.
>>> The term "consecration" is perhaps misleading in this instance.
>>> While it is true that the Sacraments have been counted in different
>>> ways in different times, there is no evidence that the episcopacy
>>> was ever counted as a Sacrament distinct from some other putative
>>> sacrament of, say, presbytery or deaconry.
>>
>> But consecration to the episcopacy is not, in itself, not a
>> sacrament. Saying "Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament" is
>> less misleading than saying "No, consecration of a bishop is not a
>> sacrament."
>
> If wishes were horses you'd have a real derby winner there. What
> counts as "less misleading" depends entirely upon the context, and
> what you wrote was quite misleading. What was needed was a clear
> statement that the episcopacy is a gradus within the Sacrament of
> Holy Orders, and that is precisely what I wrote. It is fatuous to
> suggest that what I wrote was more misleading than what you wrote,
> especially when you could just as easily have written what I wrote if
> you had wanted to.
Well, the context in which I wrote:
> 1) Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament.
was:
> 2) Yes, it is "holy orders"
If I am being misleading, I am in good company, including the Catholic
Encyclopedia, which writes: "If we except the consecration of a bishop,
which is a sacrament -- although there is a question among theologians,
whether the sacrament and the character imprinted by it are distinct from
the sacrament and character of the priesthood, or only a certain extension
of the sacerdotal sacrament and character -- all the other consecrations are
sacramentals."
John Briggs
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