medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Marjorie: buy another one :-P
On 5/24/06, Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Is it my computer or is this message full of indecipherable symbols?
> MG
>
>
>
> >
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >In a message dated 22/05/2006 23:27:30 GMT Daylight Time,
> >[log in to unmask] writes:
> ><<Further thoughts, kids abed, should be doing something else… >>
> >
> >Like the Rabbi said, life begins when the children leave home and the dog
> >is
> >dead...
> >
> ><<It's very unusual for resident chaplains to be called 'canons': in
> >fact I'
> >ve never come across it. Are you sure the prebendaries (i.e. the receivers
> >of prebends) were not the canons, which is entirely normal, and the
> >resident
> >chaplains not effectively their vicars? >>
> >
> >These were exactly my expectations. See my reply to your first. Here's
> >the
> >transcription of what the Chantry Commissioners said (Lawrence Snell, /The
> >Chantry Certificates for Cornwall /(Documents towards a history of the
> >Reformation in Cornwall, No 1) (Exeter, nd [1953?])):
> >
> >[Chantry Certificate 15/89]: "… The Deanery or Rectorye there
> >ffounded by
> >kyng Adelstone to ffynde a Dean or a parson who is charged wythe three
> >curattes to serve in three sev'all churches that is to say one to
> >mynystre in the
> >churche of saynt Buryan w' is the mother churche & the other towe to
> >celebrate
> >in towe chappelles scituate wtin the paroche of saynt Buryan And being
> >distant from the paryshe churche three ev'ye one of them three myles
> >thereaboutes.
> > To ffynde also three p'bendaryes to helpe to celebrate dyvyne servyce
> >wythin the paryshe churche of saynt Buryan aforesayde w' Dean & other
> >the sayd p'
> >bendaryes have for the mayntenance of their lyvings the revenues of
> >certayne
> >landes appoynted out for ye purpose dyvyded amongst the' equallye
> >accordyng
> >to theyr severall porcons."
> >
> >[Certificate 9/4: "… ffounded wtin the p'ishe Churche of Beryan to
> >the
> >Dean or Rector / of Beryan whyche hath the cure of ye p'ishe churche of
> >beryan &
> >of ij other p'ishe Churches being chappelles therunto appendaunt And ys
> >charged wythe thre p'ishe churches."
> >
> >The first certificate has three parishes and the second just one--which
> >reflects the odd status of those parishes.
> >
> ><<It would be interesting to know if these chaplains had any parochial
> >responsibilities (eg at St Levan): a dual responsibility for both parish
> >and
> >liturgy in the church itself crops up at some other former minster
> >collegiate
> >churches. >>
> >
> >They did, as far as I can see, at least at times. When things were very
> >prosperous, it looks as though there were chaplains appointed to do the
> >duties
> >at Buryan for the prebendaries, in addition to the King's Clerk who said
> >masses for AEthelstan, but at other times (probably most of the time,
> >given the
> >complaints of neglect), the same men did both parish duties and minster
> >duties,
> >if they did them at all.
> >
> ><<Likewise to know more about the lands that made up these prebends: for
> >example, was St Levan on any particular prebend's land? If so, would
> >'his'
> >chaplain (if the chaplains are indeed vicars for the prebends) have played
> >a
> >specific role there?>>
> >
> >We'd all like to know about the land. Nicholas Orme, inter alios, has
> >studied it, and cannot say for sure. The lands which supported the
> >Deanery until
> >1548 (and which were afterwards known as the Manor of Buryan and alienated
> >from the church) were almost certainly those described in Domesday, which
> >in
> >turn seem to be the same as those in the AEthelstan charter
> >(unsurprisingly,
> >whether or not the charter is a forgery). The problem is that although
> >some of
> >them are still readily identifiable, quite a lot of it could be anywhere
> >in
> >the Deanery. Anglo-Saxon transliteration of early mediaeval Cornish can
> >be
> >pretty impenetrable--not that I know either language, but that's what
> >those
> >who do say, and I believe them...
> >
> >But the consensus is that most of the land was within what is now Buryan
> >(the identifiable places all are), and that although one of the
> >prebendaries was
> >'of Trethyn', which seems to be Treen in St Levan, it isn't certain that
> >any
> >of his lands were there. I suspect they were, however. There were some
> >odd
> >(for this area) land-ownership patterns in Treen in 1838 which may hark
> >back
> >to this. Again it needs a lot more work.
> >
> >Susan
> >[log in to unmask]
>
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