Philip
I thank you to your thoughtful reply and of course I did not think
that you were intentionally being malicious. I was raising the issue
of ethics of taking the texts and images of others and re publishing
it in THEIR name. Peter Weibel has I think explained that this was
an error and that you thought that since you were doing this both
for dead people and living artists, people would understand that
it was not serious.
"This use of fiction as a
narrative technique, this allusion to the developers culture was
apparently misleading or at least creates the fear that other readers
than oneself -- though oneself realized it quickly - could not understand
the tongue in cheek approach. We thought that the fabricated,
constructed, fictional character would be obvious, since persons like
Galileo Galilee speak in the first person. That information was
rewritten to fit into the narrative form can be interpreted as a
violation of personal rights. I regret this, as the "gotchies" were not
meant as an attack on artists' identities, but as an act of positive
attention in the art context. The problem is that we started off the new
structure of an open platform with old techniques of narration. In a way
we started off with a still old curating practice: the curator did not
only offer a form, but wrote the narrative content. We have assembled
information, fictionalized parts of it and told something instead having
the user putting in the information from the beginning. Maybe the
project was still too curated by the "WhoAmI" narrations. Yet, maybe it
could be understood as an "attractant" for future users, which is more
effective than a verbal call for participation. " excerpt from Wieberl
post to CRUMB July 20 2006
You raise a separate issue referring to to work of artist vuc cosic who "
'whacked' basically
stole the entire documenta x web site. he loaded it only his server and
took control."
never did it enter my mind that his purpose was malicious. in fact it's
still up today "
Indeed there is a whole history of artists appropriation and
re contextualisation but your project i as a curatorial project
of a leading institution; If ZKM as an institution had taken the
web site of Documenta X" and modified it and republished
it as the web site of documenta= i suspect that the matter would
have been treated differently !!
As Peter has pointed out we are in an interesting time when curatorship
is being redefined and major institutions like the Tate and Whitney
and Mineapolis have pioneered a number of approaches which at the
same time work with respect with the artists involved. Peter has talked
about
an institution creating a "frame" and push the limits of curatorial
practice.
This can only be applauded. But perhaps the way to have done this would
to have been artists to participate and then allow other people to
participate
if they wanted to contribute. In his words in his post to CRUMB/
"This unprogrammed approach to an art work
the condition of which can be used and changed by the consumer are for
me the most important aspects.
This project is a preliminary test for further projects. The long-term
goal is that the databace of space projects will rotate as a satellite
around the earth, that orbit projects are indeed revolving in orbit and
that by tele-remote information exchange people can creatively attend
this project.
Naturally since this is an experiment and a test the results can be
questioned and discussed." from Weibel post
FInally let me note that it is good to see the ZKM finally paying attention
to space arts in general = this is a growing artists community and it is
time
that a more critical discussion be engaged that has been the case so far.
You may know that the Octobre Cultural Center in Valencia is organising
an event called " Expanding the Space" where they raise a number of
interesting questions about space arts in the context of myths of
colonisation
but also the paradoxes of space technology which is part of a technoculture
that is leading to serious planetary degradation and climate change.
So again= I apologise if I gave the impression that you were being
malicious. The artists who contacted me were upset because they felt
that a major institution like ZKM was not treating their work in a
respectful
manner ( and unfortunately you sent them some threatening emails that were
not appropriate which raised the temperature)
Roger
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: philip pocock < [log in to unmask]>
Date: Jun 21, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: malicious representation
To: roger malina <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: [log in to unmask] , [log in to unmask]
dear roger
i understand from your first post to crumb that you had an absolutely
without-a-doubt horrendous and perhaps malicious experience with ridiculous
porn and your very good name. it is i am sure harrowing and hard to
trust online intentions with such an experience. i am really sorry that that
has ever been a part of your online experience and can assure you that there
is no reason to imagine from my reading peter's post and the spaceplace team
intent is anything other than honorable and innovative, and in the best
sense, laboratory playfulness.
there is no 'appearance that certain artists were active participants.'
from orbit.zkm.de
"Submitted by konstantin.tsio... on Tue, 2006-03-28 23:39."
"Submitted by galileo.galilei on Fri, 2006-04-07 02:49."
"Submitted by johannes.kepler on Tue, 2006-04-25 01:12."
"Submitted by andy.warhol on Mon, 2006-03-20 17:24."
"Submitted by vincent.vangogh on Tue, 2006-03-21 22:33."
there are dozens more of these deceased 'orbitants' connected to living ones
through keywords that expand the field of practise of space artists.
fred hughes hired me as photographer to photograph every scrap of paper,
sketch, photobooth selfportrait, mao sketch, cat aphorism, and every single
article in andy warhol's inner sanctum at the factory right after he died in
1984. i was hired as i was sworn not to leak any photos of the archiving
work i did then, although the press of course and other artists were
curious. i respect andy's privacy, what photos he keeps in his drawers, and
yet his 'orbitant' writes the spaceplace bio in the first person (or
quasi-first person):
Born as Andrew Warhola in 1928 in Pittsburgh, I moved to New York in 1949,
where I became one of the country's leading commercial artists. By the end
of the '50s I turned my attention to fine art and by the '60s I was
exhibiting my Pop paintings and sculpture - including the now-famous Brillo
Boxes, Marilyns and Campbell's Soup Cans - in New York and Los Angeles. The
exhibition shows iconic works from the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, including
early pop portraits, cow wallpaper, cloud pillows, skulls, disaster
paintings, films and source material. It provides a unique opportunity for
people to see the full spectrum of work by one of the most influential
artists of the late 20 th century, who created new ways of looking at both
art and life.
this and the dozens and dozens of deceased first person 'playful' bios are
more than enough assurance of intent.
and for the brain dead guest, on every single spaceplace page, we state:
all information on this web 'mashup' is art. any similarity to earthlings is
purely artistic.
that has also been added to every email sent to new members, although it is
in my view almost too much. peter is certainly being sure that all steps are
taken to answer your concerns completely.
as well spaceplace is not published. it is mashed up. in peter's mail
response he expressed his position were traditional media such as books
involved. sure there remains a touch of provocation but that is part and
parcel of net art.
for instance, in 1997 when documenta 10 produced my internat art work in
africa, a young eastern european artist vuc cosic 'whacked' basically stole
the entire documenta x web site. he loaded it only his server and took
control. never did it enter my mind that his purpose was malicious. in fact
it's still up today.
google documenta done:
result:
documenta X - Welcome
art, exhibition, exposition, kunst, Ausstellung, live video, real audio, net
art, Kassel, documenta X, dX, dokumenta, X, web projects, artist projects,
...
www.ljudmila.org/~vuk/dx/ <http://www.ljudmila.org/%7Evuk/dx/> - 3k - Cached
- Similar pages
if you google 'cosic' and 'documenta done' you find descriptions of it like:
"Vuk Cosic's hijack of the Documenta X web sit" and yet i know his intent
and its fun. its young. its the net. its not shocking. or theft.
and whatismore, Leonardo even praised vuk cosic's 'identity theft,' in an
article still online, and high on the google result page, position 3:
Leonardo 35.5, October 2002
Digital Salon
# Cosic, Vuk. Documenta Done
[Access article in PDF]
Subjects:
* Cosic, Vuk. Documenta done [web site]
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/leonardo/toc/len35.5.html
that page is still online. it is the best precedent there is to find our
common ground.
and here from the server of your CRUMB list, sarah's server - sunderland in
the uk:
Vuk Cosic presentation. Vuk Cosic is an artist [see bio]. ... I will be
showing 'Documenta Done'
www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/balticseminar/cosic.htm
he made a career out of his 'identity theft' . it's been shown at the ICC,
you name it, every major outlet. and the key content is my work. he never
asked me. why? because its his work. and every cogent person understands his
intention and his humor and his art.
again i can understand that you had a horrible personal experience with your
being characterized as a sleazy pornwriter in online space some years back
as you informed the Crumb list in a mail, and creative scientists are if not
moreso as passionate as the general public and affected as much or more by
such things. i would be too. but art is art - period.
please let's move on and do things! there is no time to lose. an art
satellite could become a reality if we move or another victim of the person
who traumatized your trust in online intentions. lets listen to john lennon
'imagine there's no hell, above you only sky.'
here a site that 'stole my identity' not once but twice, as i had two
projects in documenta, and it makes me laugh:
http://www.ljudmila.org/~vuk/dx/ <http://www.ljudmila.org/%7Evuk/dx/>
and what is more it was one of my projects that convinced catherine david to
even include the net in her show. the curator of that piece i made as well
became her net curator. and still i was not upset in the slightest because
eastern european contemporary art has a certain intent which clearly is not
malicious. neither is zkm.
with respect, philip
On Jun 21, 2006, at 1:14 PM, roger malina wrote:
*
Peter
one of my questions remains the concern about
the way that your and Philip's project made it to appear that
certain artists were active participants in the
project when in fact they knew nothing about it
and the material had been taken from them
on line without their approval
this recent incident in myspace is an illustration
of the ethical issue of identify theft= I dont think
it makes a difference whether a project is commercial
or non commercial, an art project or a military
project; Publishing something under someone
elses name is not ethical
how do you view this specific issue ?
Roger
**
copied from <http://blogs.salon.com/0000014/2006/06/05.html#a1052>
*http://blogs.salon.com/0000014/2006/06/05.html#a1052
*
Kornbluth's MySpace
nightmare<http://blogs.salon.com/0000014/2006/06/05.html#a1052>
*
Josh Kornbluth <http://blogs.kqed.org/joshkornbluth/>, the monologuist and
KQED host, has posted an account of a Kafkaesque experience with MySpace
<http://blogs.kqed.org/joshkornbluth/?p=112> that should give any operator
of an online business pause.
It seems that some malicious person posted a phony profile under Josh's
name, filled the profile page with gross porn, and then sent Josh's
superiors at KQED outraged emails demanding that he be fired. Josh's posting
offers a painfully vivid account of how hard it can be to attempt to
communicate directly with a company that has chosen to make itself
unavailable to the public.
MySpace's meteoric rise is legendary, of course (it claims 70 million users
these days). The company is in the crosshairs of the online dece
This
philip pocock
[log in to unmask]
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