medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
You may add to your inventory the Cathedral at Syracuse, a converted
(640) Doric style Greek Temple of Athena (ca. 480 b.c.). It is worth
noting that the ancient architecture that survived antiquity well were
the temples that Christians rededicated as churces. The religion
changed but the purpose remained essentially the same and, as an asset
for longevity, they were maintained. yrs, tom ault
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:49:31 -0500
"Howe, John" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> Krautheimer's Rome: Portrait of a City is the definitive discussion
>of temple reuse, and, I think, the source of the claim that
>Christians were not eager to move into these demon-haunted places.
> Note that while the Pantheon did not become Santa Maria Rotonda
>until the early 600s, the healing temple of Aesclepius on the Tiber
>Island never got Christianized until Otto III.
>
> --John Howe, Texas Tech
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
>culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas
>Izbicki
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 3:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> Is there any indication when Christians started reusing temples as
>churches? I did a lot of reading on the churches of Rome years ago,
>& I believe it was Rome in the Dark Ages by Peter Llewellyn (London,
>1993) that said Christians let the Pantheon etc. sit idle for a long
>period before taking them over as churches (ca. 7th century).
>
> Tom Izbicki
>
> Thomas Izbicki
> Collection Development Coordinator
> Eisenhower Library
> Johns Hopkins
> Baltimore, MD 21218
> (410)516-7173
> fax (410)516-8399
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 4:04 PM >>>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> Gregory's writ did not run in Greece -- at that point, no one's did
>-- but
> there are a vast number of replacement or evolved shrines. I used
>to live
> in the Argolid & was fascinated that a shrine to which Hera was
>taken
> annually to bathe (Pausanias) has been, at least from the 12th C, a
> convent/monastery to Zoodochos Pigi, the Life-Giving Fountain, which
>icon
> shows the Virgin in a chalice from which pour 4 streams of water.
>
>
> Churches dedicated to Ag. Marina [Western Margherita] show her with
>a dragon
> out of which she busted: every Ag. Marina I know is built on the
>base of a
> temple to Athena [who busted out of Zeus' head....].
>
> Ag. Elias who went to heaven in a chariot has long been confounded
>with
> Helios & his sun chariot.
>
> The small church to Ag. Thomas encorporates a preChristian rock with
>a hole
> in it through which children are passed for healing. And so on and
>so
> forth.
>
> It is, I believe, impossible to demonstrate continuity at any of
>these
> sites: there have been so many massacres, transfers of populations,
> destructions of buildings, periods of wealth & literacy [and so
>familiarity
> with classical works], foreign dominations [including foreigners who
>come
> wanting continuities], etc..
>
> DW
>
>
> 2. What may be significant would be attempts to uproot Cybele
>worship AND
> replace it with Marian veneration. To chart this one would have to
>know a
> fair number of Cybele temples which became Marian shrines or hymns
>to Mary
> patterned on earlier aretologies. Here Ep. XI.56 of Gregory the
>Great (601)
> is instructive. In this letter he deliberately advocates
>replacement of
> non-Christian effigies and shrines with Christian ones. This was a
>change
> from his earlier policy--and that of Boniface--of simply
>obliterating
> non-Christian cultic images. Augustine also wrote about the
>replacement of
> a Christian church on the site of a Magna Mater temple on the
>Carthage
> Byrsa. Though the temple was demolished women still brought their
>offerings
> to the hill. There is also the case of the Kollyridian in
>Epiphanius,
> Panarian. Finally, the shrine to Mary at the base of the hill of
>the
> Parthenon in Athens (still extant) might be instructive. It is on
>the site
> of what was once a goddess shrine and the guardians of the Marian
>shrine to
> this day are all women.
> It is true, as several correspondents have noted, that early
> Christianity did not teach that Mary should be given divine honors.
> However, the history of Marian devotion does not always make clear
>how
> people venerating Mary imagined her or what they might be doing on
>site
> formerly hallowed by goddess worship.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> Author
> Borgeaud, Philippe
> Title
> Mère des dieux. English
>
> Mother of the gods : from Cybele to the Virgin Mary / Philippe
>Borgeaud ;
> translated by Lysa Hochroth
> Imprint
> Baltimore : Johns Hopkins University Press, 2004
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the following to:
> Connect to
>http://www.loc.gov/catdir/bios/jhu051/2004004563.html
> Connect to
>http://www.loc.gov/catdir/description/jhu051/2004004563.html
> Connect to
>http://www.loc.gov/catdir/toc/ecip0415/2004004563.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Descript
> xix, 186 p. ; 24 cm
> Bibliog.
> Includes bibliographical references (p. [133]-177) and indexes
> Contents
> An itinerant mother -- In the Athenian Agora -- The invention of a
> mythology -- The mother's entrance into the Roman Republic -- The
>origin
> of the Mater Magna -- Attis in the Imperial period -- From mother of
>the
> gods to Mother of God
> Subjects
> Mary, Blessed Virgin, Saint -- Devotion to
>
> Cybele (Goddess)
>
> Christianity and other religions -- Roman
>
> Mother goddesses -- Rome
> OCLC #
> 54529874
> ISBN
> 080187985X (alk. paper
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Author
> Julian, Emperor of Rome, 331-363
> Title
> Eis t¯en m¯etera t¯on the¯on. Italian & Greek
>
> Alla madre degli dei / Giuliano Imperatore ; edizione critica,
>traduzione
> e commento a cura di Valerio Ugenti
> Imprint
> [Galatina] : Gongedo, 1992
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alt name
> Ugenti, Valerio, 1950-
> Descript
> xxx, 176 p. ; 24 cm
> Series
> Testi e studi / Università degli studi di Lecce, Dipartimento di
>filologia
> classica e medioevale ; 6
>
> Testi e studi (Università degli studi di Lecce. Dipartimento di
>filologia
> classica e medioevale) ; 6
> Bibliog.
> Includes bibliographical references and indexes
> Subjects
> Cybele (Goddess) -- Cult -- Early works to 1800
>
> Attis (God) -- Cult -- Early works to 1800
>
> Rome -- Religion -- Early works to 1800
> OCLC #
> 33357148
> ISBN
> 8877865547 : L50.000
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |
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> |
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> |
> | Author
> |
> |Langener, Lucia
> |
> | Title
> |
> |Isis lactans--Maria lactans : Untersuchungen zur koptischen
>Ikonographie /|
> |Lucia Langener
> |
> | Publish info
> |
> |Altenberge : Oros Verlag, 1996
> |
> |
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> |
> |
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> |
>
> |
> | Descript'n
> |
> |xiii, 323 p., viii, 190 p. : ill. ; 21 cm
> |
> | Series
> |
> |Arbeiten zum spätantiken und koptischen Ägypten ; 9
> |
> | Note
> |
> |Originally presented as the author's thesis (Westfälischen
> |
> |Wilhelms-Universität in Münster, 1995)
> |
> |
>
> |
> |Includes bibliographical references
> |
> | Subjects
> |
> |Isis (Egyptian deity) -- Art
> |
> |
>
> |
> |Mary, Blessed Virgin, Saint -- Art
> |
> |
>
> |
> |Breastfeeding in art
> |
> |
>
> |
> |Art, Coptic -- Themes, motives
> |
> | OCLC #
> |
> |37157894
> |
> | ISBN
> |
> |3893751319 :
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
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>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
> Also see
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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> |
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> |
> | An Isis Aretalogy from Kyme in Asia Minor, First Century B.C.E. /
>Gail |
> | Corrington Streete
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
> in
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> | Title
> |
> |Religions of late antiquity in practice / Richard Valantasis,
>editor |
> | Publish info
> |
> |Princeton, N.J. : Princeton University Press, c2000
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |
>
> |
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
> When one finds a litany directly patterned on an aretology of a
>goddess,
> one can surmise something of the tactics Gregory promoted.
>
> For those of you who are interested in Mariology, I suggest the
> resources of the library of the International Marian Research
>Institute,
> here in Dayton. Their web page is
> <http://www.udayton.edu/~mary/>. The library holdings can be
>accessed at
> <http://library.udayton.edu>.
> Maureen A. Tilley
> Coordinator of Undergraduate Studies
> President, North American Patristics Society
> University of Dayton, Department of Religious Studies
> Dayton, OH 45469-1530
> (937) 229-4564
>
>
>
> |---------+---------------------------------->
> | | Thomas Izbicki |
> | | <[log in to unmask]> |
> | | Sent by: |
> | | medieval-religion - |
> | | Scholarly discussions |
> | | of medieval religious |
> | | culture |
> | | <MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISC|
> | | MAIL.AC.UK> |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | 08/23/2005 02:23 PM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | medieval-religion - |
> | | Scholarly discussions |
> | | of medieval religious |
> | | culture |
> |---------+---------------------------------->
>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------|
> |
> |
> | To: [log in to unmask]
> |
> | cc:
> |
> | Subject: Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
> |
>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> I have seen it suggested recently, in a book on Herculaneum, that
>poses for
> Virgin & Child might have been copied back when from Isis & Horus.
> Has
> anyone actually done comparative work in that line?
>
> Copying styles, of course, is not the same as simple renaming of a
>godess,
> which I find unlikely.
>
> Tom Izbicki
>
> Thomas Izbicki
> Collection Development Coordinator
> Eisenhower Library
> Johns Hopkins
> Baltimore, MD 21218
> (410)516-7173
> fax (410)516-8399
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 2:10 AM >>>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> I, for one, do not believe it in any sense, think it is nonsense and
> impossible to back up. Claims of this sort have been around ever
>since
> there
> were Christians to persecute and will always be with us. The innate
>thirst
> for the transcendent chafes certain people, who then find it
>necessary to
> lash out at believers. I learned ages ago to ignore them.
> MG
>
>
>>From: Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
>>religious
>
>> culture <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 22. August
>>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:28:02 -0500
>>
>>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>culture
>>
>>
>> > As Cybele, the Mother Goddess, has been replaced by the BVM
>>
>>A claim that, however much one would like to believe it in some
>>sense, is
>>very
>>difficult to back up, let alone explain. Any takers?
>>Cheers,
>>Jim Bugslag
>>
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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