medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Movement in the womb was a sign of ensoulment.
The Western Church allowed the abortion of an unborn child up until the time
when it was believed to receive its soul. This was known to the Church
Fathers as animation, ensoulment, quickening.
For Saint Augustine this was 40 days for a boy and 80 days for a girl. Pope
Benedict placed the ensoulment time at 17 weeks.
I think that someone posted examples to the Forum from Irish hagiographies
where in three separate instances three Irish Saints brought about early
term abortions. The monk-hagiographers actually offer these examples as a
proof of the miraculous powers of the Saints!! These instances are
practical examples of the early teachings in action. The Saints did not see
themselves as guilty of abortion because they did not see the early term
foetus as a human being with a soul.
Fr Ambrose
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Drigsdahl" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:27 AM
Subject: [M-R] When the child moved in the womb
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Dear List,
> The prayer in French called 'Quindecim gaudia de Beata Virgine Maria,
> (The 15 Joys of the Virgin) has puzzled me lately, when I made an
> attempt to create a system suitable for database registration.
>
> All the 15 (really mostly 14) Joys are referring to events from
> the Gospels, exept the one with the text:
> 'quant vous le sentistes mouvoir en vos doulx flans'
>
> It follows immediately after the Visitation, where it really
> is St.John who moved in the womb of Elizabeth according to
> tradition, and not Jesus. Full text is quoted below*
>
> The anomymous author has transferred the movement of the child
> from Elizabeth to Mary - something which has caused me to
> suspect a strong female influence on the author.
>
> Now is my problem to find a suitable term for this incidence.
> After several days of search have I not yet found any established
> cathegory describing it in liturgy or in iconography.
> Any suggestions? And does it have a litterary source?
> Thanks in advance
> Erik Drigsdahl
>
> *
> [2] E tres doulce dame pour icelle grant ioie que vous eustes
> quant uous alastes a la montaigne visiter sainte elizabeth vostre cousine
.
> et elle vous dit que vous esties benoite sur toutes aultres femmes .
> et que le fruit de vostre ventre estoit benoit.
> Doulce dame pries lui quil vueille rassasier mon ame.
> Ave maria gracia.
>
> [3] E tres doulce dame pour icelle grant ioie que vous eustes
> quant vous le sentistes mouvoir en vos doulx flans.
> Doulce dame pries lui quil vueille esmouvoir mon cuer
> a lui servir et amer. Ave maria gracia.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Mag.art. Erik Drigsdahl CHD Center for Haandskriftstudier i Danmark
> Kapelvej 25B 3.tv Phone: +45 +35 37 20 47
> DK-2200 Copenhagen N Email: <[log in to unmask]>
> DENMARK http://www.chd.dk
>
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