medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Though not medieval, Talleyrand springs to mind. This jack-of-all-trades was
actually bishop of Autun, whose canons were a trifle shocked when he din't
know how to say Mass. There's much discussion of T's "defect," something
with his foot. The most common belief, clubfoot, has been dismissed by some
historians. Considering the range of his activities, he must have had a
house full of proper clothing for whatever persona he adopted for the moment
- or regime. He must have been a fascinating fellow, knowing how to land on
his feet - pun intended.
MG
>From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] Christian names
>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:07:11 -0600
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>For the reason, so cogently put below, of insuring the future well-
>being of the family, it seems likely to me that one circumstance under
>which a first-born son might have been destined for the church (though
>not for high office in the church) was when that son labored under some
>sort of defect (mental slowness, for example) making him significantly
>less than ideal as a future manager of the family's estates and other
>interests. Indeed, I vaguely recall having at times been aware of an
>example or two -- though, to be sure, I cannot think of one just now.
>
>Best,
>John Dillon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:42 pm
>Subject: Re: [M-R] Christian names
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> > culture
> > From: Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > >>[ME] i assume that this Raherius was the father of our Bishop
> > (1149-56)
> > Goslen, who, being destined for the clergy, would not have been
> > the firstborn
> > son.
> >
> > >> but it *was* in that of the Leves family from which his mother
> > came --and
> > there it was the *primary* name for firstborn sons (Bishop
> > Godfrey's brother,
> > Goslen's uncle, Lord of Leves, was a Goslen).
> >
> > > Thank you for a very full answer.
> >
> > you get what you pay for.
> >
> > and, what you get is worth what you pay for it.
> >
> > all this stuff is off the top of my head and when it proves to be
> > totallybogus i will disavow all connection with it.
> >
> > Caveat Lector.
> >
> > >As for the above "principle", I seem to recall some exceptions to
> > it in this
> > region. Nothing I can put my finger on easily at present, but
> > might it have
> > been possible that a first-born *was* occasionally destined
> > for the clergy?
> >
> > certainly.
> >
> > it was not a Law, after all, but a Custom.
> >
> > "just" a Custom.
> >
> > like all Customs, surely sometimes not followed, if there was suffient
> > Reason.
> >
> > but, i would suspect that there would have to have been a very,
> > very good
> > reason for not following this one, since it is so firmly grounded
> > in the
> > *necessity* of putting the interests of the [extended] family
> > first in almost
> > all matters.
> >
> > this requires a strong [male] head of the Family, generation after
> > generation,ceaselessly working for the Family interests,
> > protecting them from others for
> > a start (in this period when anything that wasn't Nailed Cown was
> > subject to
> > being Ripped Off) and expanding them whenever and wherever possible.
>
>[SNIP]
>
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