medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Chris Laning <[log in to unmask]>
> Not all the experts have weighed in yet on the mailing list I posted
Christopher's question to, but the consensus so far is that the thing on the
right is either a knife in a sheath, or one of those portable inkhorn + penner
things that scribes carry.
my original thought.
but:
1) it seems *awfuly* small to be even a pen knife;
b) there is just that little round tip of the handle sticking up, hardly
enough to grab aholt of ;
iii) Peter is not noted for being a "writer", as best i can recall, so this
attribute (if it is some kind of attribute) would be rather unusual.
to the last point one might say that these objects *are* rather unusual,
whateverthahell they are.
> The hanging strap with "holes", in this concept, is some sort of reinforcing
or stiffening strip on the left-hand edge of the object, and the "holes" are
very likely to be decorative metal studs.
this is possible, of course --this sculptor likes to use the drill quite a
lot.
note the multiple "decorative" groupings of three drill holes elsewhere on the
figures' garments
http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl42.jpg
such triangular groupings of drill holes are found in quite a few manuscript
and fresco paintings --as well as sculptures-- in the 12th c., and this
sculptor uses them a *lot* on other figures found at Nazareth.
they don't appear to have been filled with glass paste or lead --as, for
instance, the pupils of eyes are sometimes treated-- but may have been.
the drill holes on the thin leather strap could have been (intended to be)
filled as well, in which case they wouldn't have been holes at all but, as you
say, "decorative metal studs".
i personally don't think that this is the case, however --a damned strange
"decoration".
they look like they are there for the same purpose as are the holes in a belt
--some kind of mechanism for adjusting something (quite carefully), for some
reason.
>The short horizontal strip near the top would be the top edge of the sheath
(or narrow pouch)
yes.
>and the rounded thing seen above that line would be the end of the knife
handle
viday soupra : too small.
>(or the rounded end of the pen-case).
an idea.
what do "pen cases" look like, eggsactly?
>This makes sense to me.
whatever.
Any Port in a Storm.
> Everybody's baffled so far on the heart-shaped object.
heheheheehehe.
>I didn't tell them any of the other guesses that have been made,
yes, when doing a true Rhorschach test you don't want to spoil the results by
prejudicial suggestions.
>and at least two people on the other list immediately said that it looks a
lot like a fan except that it's much too small -- which was also my first
thought.
and a good thought it was, too.
too bad it is wrong.
very unfair, somehow.
http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl43-4-d.jpg
From: Nicole Morgan Schulman <[log in to unmask]>
> Could it be a pomander?
>
> Just a guess.
*some* folks on this list might not even know what a "pomander" is.
for the dispellation of Suchlike Ignorance:
Main Entry: po·man·der
Pronunciation: 'pO-"man-d&r, pO-'
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, modification of Middle French pome d'ambre,
literally, apple or ball of amber
1 : a mixture of aromatic substances enclosed in a perforated bag or box and
used to scent clothes and linens or formerly carried as a guard against
infection; also : a clove-studded orange or apple used for the same purposes
2 : a box or hollow fruit-shaped ball for holding pomander
in this interpretation, i imagine that the Dingus would be made of metal(??),
and what appears to be a ring of "beading" is actually perforations.
i'd like to see a painting or --morebetter-- an actual surviving exemplar of
suchlike an object before i give up the idea that it's a snuffbox or a
Keepsake Locket, however.
thanks to all.
Perseverance Furthers.
we're almost there.
or not.
c
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