I don't disagree that it's an oversimplification in general. It's not an oversimplification, I'd say, in terms of the measure(s) of productivity that the ONS construct and that are (well, seem to be) the basis of the claims about French productivity being 26% higher than the UK. It all depends (as ever) on what's meant by productivity.
The 'standard' ONS figures use essentially one measure of output for everything, and only one kind of measure of input, which is the amount of labour. The output measure for the regularly published UK figures is gross value added (GVA, at basic prices). The international comparisons don't use GVA, they use GDP, which of course isn't quite the same, and presumably it's used because GVA figures aren't available internationally on a comparable basis. (However, the OECD publish productivity figures that take more inputs into account --- I don't know the details.)
GDP is GVA + taxes on products - subsidies on products, so comparisons on the basis of GDP do suffer from differences in tax regimes and also on subsidy regimes (as John alluded to in his reply).
Ray's point about whether any of this is a meaningful measure of output in services (or, I'd add, in manufacturing either) is well made. I'd agree that the alleged 26% difference probably has not a lot to do with the rhetoric about productivity, national chanarecteristics, education and so on that is being hung on it.
Regards,
Kevin (no economist!)
Kevin McConway
Senior Lecturer in Statistics
Department of Statistics
The Open University
Walton Hall
Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, UK
Phone: +44-1908-653676
Fax: +44-1908-655515
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ray Thomas
Sent: 23 March 2005 11:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Productivity and growth
>Does productivity refer only to manufacturing?
No it doesn't. It's the whole economy, service and all. So the rest of John's argument doesn't really follow.
*********************************
I think this is gross oversimplification. We can measure productivity in
manufacturing because there is a physical output, and we can trust the statisticians to measure quantity times value at different times and for different countries.
But services is a different matter. What measures of output are used?
Are these measures meaningful? The traditional solution was to value
services at their cost. So productivity in effect measured by wages and
salaries received!
I imagine that the ONS have tried to find meaningful measures of output for
services. But this is very tricky as indicated by the discussion on
measuring productivity in education.
You can see the effects of trying to increase productivity in services in
automated telephone systems. You have to give your name, address,
postcode, customer number and wife's maiden name to a computer before you
can find out whether the organisation is open on Saturdays! The costs of
making a call are pushed on the consumer. The productivity of the staff of
the call centre is increased because their conversations with customer are
shorter. And the size of the call centre is reduced because so many
customers fail to find their way through the automated system.
Does anyone know how ONS measures of productivity in services are actually made?
Ray Thomas
35 Passmore, Tinkers Bridge, Milton Keynes MK6 3DY
Email: [log in to unmask]
Tel/Fax 01908 679081
******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask]
*******************************************************
******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
*******************************************************
|