medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >I think the "ancient law" in this case is the Statute of Praemunire
> >of 1353---which declared that it is illegal to take abroad cases
> >that are cognizable in the king's court.
Julien wrote:
> 1353 would be little more than 150 years before Henry which I would say
> hardly qualifies as ‘ancient’. Moreover the Statute of Praemunire limits the
> power of the pope but I don’t think it goes as far as saying that ‘it is
> treason to acknowledge any higher authority than the will of the king’. I
> have always thought that this mysterious ancient law dates back to something
> like the tenth century when the early kings of England were trying to
> establish their authority. At this time it would not of course have been
> aimed at the pope but I thought the whole point was that Henry was harking
> back to a time when Kings of England were sovereign and not answerable to
> popes ie a time before the escalation of papal claims that started with
> Gregory VII in the eleventh century. So Henry’s scholars were saying that any
> suggestion that the King of England was answerable to the pope was an
> innovation, a fiction that started in the eleventh century, and was therefore
> invalid. The true, original and ancient state of affairs was that the King of
> England is unfettered sovereign. So I thought it was something like this that
> Henry's scholars were excited about.
Besides the "Statute of Praemunire," there were the First and Second "Act of
Provisors." However, I, also, don't think that they would have been referred to
as "ancient," either. I suppose the Magna Carta may have been viewed, by them,
as "ancient":
1.In primis concessisse Deo et hac presenti carta nostra confirmasse, pro nobis
et heredibus nostris in perpetuum, quod Anglicana ecclesie libera sit, et
habeat jura sua integra, et libertates suas illesas; et ita volumus observari;
quod apparet ex eo quod libertatem electionum, que maxima et magis necessaria
reputatur ecclesie Anglicane, mera et spontanea voluntate, ante discordiam
inter nos et barones nostros motam, concessimus et carta nostra confirmavimus,
et eam obtinuimus a domino papa Innocentio tercio confirmari; quam et nos
observabimus et ab heredibus nostris in perpetuum bona fide volumus observari.
Concessimus eciam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri, pro nobis et
heredibus nostris in perpetuum, omnes libertates subscriptas, habendas et
tenendas eis et heredibus suis, de nobis et heredibus nostris.
63.Quare volumus et firmiter precipimus quod Anglicana ecclesia libera sit et
quod homines in regno nostro habeant et teneant omnes prefatas libertates,
Jura, et concessiones, bene et in pace, libere et quiete, plene et integre,
sibi et heredibus suis, de nobis et heredibus nostris, in omnibus rebus et
locis, in perpetuum, sicut predictum est.
Let's not forget that the Magna Carta was condemned by the Pope. I rather agree
with Julien.
Terrill
-------------
1.In the first place we have conceded to God, and by this our present charter
confirmed for us and our heirs for ever that the Anglican church shall be free,
and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate; and we wish that
it be thus observed. This is apparent from the fact that we, of our pure and
unconstrained will, did grant the freedom of elections, which is reckoned most
important and very essential to the Anglican church, and did by our charter
confirm and did obtain the ratification of the same from our lord, Pope
Innocent III., before the quarrel arose between us and our barons. This freedom
we will observe, and our will is that it be observed in good faith by our heirs
for ever.
We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom, for us and our heirs for
ever, all the underwritten liberties, to be had and held by them and their
heirs, of us and our heirs for ever:
63.Thus, we wish and we firmly ordain that the Anglican church shall be free,
and that men in our kingdom shall have and keep all these previously determined
liberties, rights, and concessions, well and in peace, freely and quietly, in
their fullness and integrity, for themselves and their heirs, from us and our
heirs, in all things and all places for ever, as is previously described here.
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