medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
This is more a reply to your second posting.
A quick glance at my favorite symbol dictionary finds
the following:
In dreams, the spider may have different meanings: a
centralization of psychic energy; or disgust at the
fact that she entraps and binds up her prey. Thus she
is the symbol of the bewitching woman, the satanic
virago whose goal is the destruction of the male. (The
suggested preoccupation of Hugo while he writing _N-D
de P_.)
In the _Book of Job_ the spiderweb is the symbol of
instability and the spider plays a part in the
maledictions that befall Job (27: 13-22)
The (positive) theme of the creature attached to its
creator is found in Plato and Pseudo-Dionysius (Divine
Name 3, 1).
I'll continue my search in other sources if you wish;
I think you've hit on a very rich and very ancient
symbol.
Consider also the Three Fates whose job is to spin and
weave, and then cut, a man's fate.
MG
--- Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
>
> I can't contribute myself to this fascinating
> discussion but it has prompted
> a question in my head that someone may be able to
> answer:
>
> I notice that the medieval spider trope used in the
> examples given to the
> list so far equates spiders with toxicity. Now, I
> know _some_ spiders are
> venemous (although are there any of these lethal
> spiders in Europe at
> all???), but it is not an overiding concern of most
> Europeans nowadays to
> worry about dying from spider bites.
>
> Where did this rather paranoid equation between
> spiders and
> lethality/death/toxicity come from?
>
> Thanks if anyone knows the history to this folklore.
>
> Rob Howe.
>
>
>
> >From: Stacy Kerr <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [M-R] miracle motifs-spiders & steaks
> >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:25:20 -0800
> >
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval religion and culture
> >
> >Another fun spider tale. Enjoy!
> >
> >Notker, the anecdotal biographer of Charlemagne,
> tells a tale of
> >Charlemagne
> >and a deacon:
> >
> >
> >(from the medieval sourcebook
>
>http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/stgall-charlemagne.html)
> >
> > "Now I must speak of two things which happened in
> that same place. There
> >was a deacon who followed the Italian custom and
> resisted the course of
> >nature. For he went to the baths and had himself
> closely shaved, polished
> >his skin, cleaned his nails, and had his hair cut
> as short as if it had
> >been
> >done by a lathe. Then he put on linen and a white
> robe, and then, because
> >he
> >must not miss his turn, or rather desiring to make
> a fine show, he
> >proceeded
> >to read the gospel before God and His holy angels,
> and in the presence of
> >the most watchful king; his hear in the meantime
> being unclean, as events
> >were to show. For while he was reading, a spider
> came down from the ceiling
> >by a thread, hooked itself on to the deacon's head,
> and then ran up again.
> >The most observant Charles saw this happen a second
> and a third time, but
> >pretended not to notice it, and the clerk, because
> of the emperor's
> >presence, dare not keep of the spider with his
> hand, and moreover did not
> >know that it was a spider attacking him, but
> thought that it was merely the
> >tickling of a fly. So he finished the reading of
> the gospel, and also went
> >through the rest of the office. But when he left
> the cathedral he soon
> >began
> >to swell up, and [101] died within an hour. But the
> most scrupulous
> >Charles,
> >inasmuch as he had seen his danger and had not
> prevented it, thought
> >himself
> >guilty of manslaughter and did public penance."
> >
> >
> >Stacy Kerr
> >USC
> >
> >
> >
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval religion and
> >culture
> > >
> > > Just another little medieval spider ditty...
> > >
> > > On his way to see the dying Innocent III, St.
> Francis (I think he was
> >the
> > > one) dilly-dallied along, taking his own sweet
> time to talk to a muslim,
> > > feed a teaspoon of soup to a beggar, and help a
> spider.
> > >
> > > I can just see them in Innocent's death
> chamber...the cardinals standing
> > > around, tapping their feet in impatience, arms
> folded, checking their
> > > watches every few minutes..."Where the heck is
> he???"
> > >
> > > Okay so they didn't have watches then but it
> makes for an amusing scene
> >in
> > > my little head.
> > >
> > > wendy reardon
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Theresa Gross-Diaz"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:05 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [M-R] miracle motifs-spiders &
> steaks
> > >
> > >
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval religion and
> >culture
> > >
> > >>>> [log in to unmask] 03/13/03 08:21AM >>>
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval religion and
> >culture
> > >
> > > Perhaps these could be shared with the list?
> Best, John Dillon
> > >
> > > Sure thing, John!
> > >
> > > Both from Alfonso X "El Sabio", Cantigas de
> Santa Maria:
> > >
> > > Cantiga # 201 Tells the story of a girl who
> promises Mary that she will
> > > remain a virgin; she breaks that promise (and
> how!), has three babies
> >whom
> > > she kills one after another, and then suffering
> remorse she tries to
> >kill
> > > herself by eating a poisonous spider. When that
> doesn't work she eats a
> > > larger one... Not yet dead but in agony
> (obviously) she prays to Mary to
> > > forgive her; Mary "restores her innocence" and
> heals her.
> > > - - - This one is particularly interesting
> because of the restored
> >[sexual]
> > > innocence motif which one finds elsewhere in
> Marian miracles (like the
> > > naughty abbess of Soissons), and the suicide (or
> here, attempted
> >suicide)
> > > motif. Despite (or because of?) the horror in
> which suicide was held -
> >(it
> > > is after all the worst of the deadly sins, that
> of Judas : despair) -
> > > suicides (prevented or restored to life) are not
> uncommon among miracle
> > > stories (there is a great one connected to
> pilgrimage to Santiago, in
> >which
> > > James shares the stage with Mary).
> > >
> > > Another Cantiga from Alfonso's collection -
> sorry I've misplaced the
> >number,
> > > but it begins "non sofre Santa Maria":
> > > It concerns pilgrims to Mary's shrine at
> Rocamadour; nine pilgrims check
> > > into their motel, order dinner, and go off to
> pray at the shrine before
> > > eating. When they return, someone has stolen
> one of their steaks! The
> > > bereft and hungry pilgrims ask Mary for aid, and
> they hear "something"
> > > thumping around inside a trunk... turns out to
> be their very rare steak.
>
=== message truncated ===
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