medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I'll do my best. But in searching my brain (didn't
take very long), there is a dearth of spider imagery
in medieval art, unless one argues that the Rose
Window, generally considered to have been inspired by
the Wheel of Fortune, was "really" a huge spiderweb. I
suspect that folklore is the best source for this
symbol and that is where I'll look next.
MG
--- Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
>
> Interesting exmaples so far. If a general medieval
> view was held that
> spiders were symbols of a siren-like female, it kind
> of makes sense that the
> spider might be seen as the enemy of a cleric then.
>
> A little more info would be helpful on this.
>
>
> >From: Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: [M-R] spider symbol
> >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 10:11:32 -0800
> >
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval religion and culture
> >
> >This is more a reply to your second posting.
> >A quick glance at my favorite symbol dictionary
> finds
> >the following:
> >In dreams, the spider may have different meanings:
> a
> >centralization of psychic energy; or disgust at the
> >fact that she entraps and binds up her prey. Thus
> she
> >is the symbol of the bewitching woman, the satanic
> >virago whose goal is the destruction of the male.
> (The
> >suggested preoccupation of Hugo while he writing
> _N-D
> >de P_.)
> >In the _Book of Job_ the spiderweb is the symbol of
> >instability and the spider plays a part in the
> >maledictions that befall Job (27: 13-22)
> >The (positive) theme of the creature attached to
> its
> >creator is found in Plato and Pseudo-Dionysius
> (Divine
> >Name 3, 1).
> >I'll continue my search in other sources if you
> wish;
> >I think you've hit on a very rich and very ancient
> >symbol.
> >Consider also the Three Fates whose job is to spin
> and
> >weave, and then cut, a man's fate.
> >MG
> >
> >--- Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> medieval
> > > religion and culture
> > >
> > > I can't contribute myself to this fascinating
> > > discussion but it has prompted
> > > a question in my head that someone may be able
> to
> > > answer:
> > >
> > > I notice that the medieval spider trope used in
> the
> > > examples given to the
> > > list so far equates spiders with toxicity. Now,
> I
> > > know _some_ spiders are
> > > venemous (although are there any of these lethal
> > > spiders in Europe at
> > > all???), but it is not an overiding concern of
> most
> > > Europeans nowadays to
> > > worry about dying from spider bites.
> > >
> > > Where did this rather paranoid equation between
> > > spiders and
> > > lethality/death/toxicity come from?
> > >
> > > Thanks if anyone knows the history to this
> folklore.
> > >
> > > Rob Howe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Stacy Kerr <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >Reply-To: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> > > religion and culture
> > > > <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >Subject: Re: [M-R] miracle motifs-spiders &
> steaks
> > > >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:25:20 -0800
> > > >
> > > >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> > > medieval religion and culture
> > > >
> > > >Another fun spider tale. Enjoy!
> > > >
> > > >Notker, the anecdotal biographer of
> Charlemagne,
> > > tells a tale of
> > > >Charlemagne
> > > >and a deacon:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >(from the medieval sourcebook
> > >
> >
>
>http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/stgall-charlemagne.html)
> > > >
> > > > "Now I must speak of two things which
> happened in
> > > that same place. There
> > > >was a deacon who followed the Italian custom
> and
> > > resisted the course of
> > > >nature. For he went to the baths and had
> himself
> > > closely shaved, polished
> > > >his skin, cleaned his nails, and had his hair
> cut
> > > as short as if it had
> > > >been
> > > >done by a lathe. Then he put on linen and a
> white
> > > robe, and then, because
> > > >he
> > > >must not miss his turn, or rather desiring to
> make
> > > a fine show, he
> > > >proceeded
> > > >to read the gospel before God and His holy
> angels,
> > > and in the presence of
> > > >the most watchful king; his hear in the
> meantime
> > > being unclean, as events
> > > >were to show. For while he was reading, a
> spider
> > > came down from the ceiling
> > > >by a thread, hooked itself on to the deacon's
> head,
> > > and then ran up again.
> > > >The most observant Charles saw this happen a
> second
> > > and a third time, but
> > > >pretended not to notice it, and the clerk,
> because
> > > of the emperor's
> > > >presence, dare not keep of the spider with his
> > > hand, and moreover did not
> > > >know that it was a spider attacking him, but
> > > thought that it was merely the
> > > >tickling of a fly. So he finished the reading
> of
> > > the gospel, and also went
> > > >through the rest of the office. But when he
> left
> > > the cathedral he soon
> > > >began
> > > >to swell up, and [101] died within an hour. But
> the
> > > most scrupulous
> > > >Charles,
> > > >inasmuch as he had seen his danger and had not
> > > prevented it, thought
> > > >himself
> > > >guilty of manslaughter and did public penance."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Stacy Kerr
> > > >USC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> > > medieval religion and
> > > >culture
> > > > >
> > > > > Just another little medieval spider ditty...
> > > > >
> > > > > On his way to see the dying Innocent III,
> St.
> > > Francis (I think he was
> > > >the
> > > > > one) dilly-dallied along, taking his own
> sweet
> > > time to talk to a muslim,
> > > > > feed a teaspoon of soup to a beggar, and
> help a
> > > spider.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can just see them in Innocent's death
> > > chamber...the cardinals standing
> > > > > around, tapping their feet in impatience,
> arms
>
=== message truncated ===
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