medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Paul,
I'll keep it in mind. Similarly, I would be very interested in what your
poet has to say about the dead body!
Danielle
"M. Paul Bryant-Quinn" wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Dear Danielle -
>
> Many thanks for this: most helpful. I'd be grateful for any other references
> you have.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Danielle Westerhof
> Sent: 02 July 2002 10:44
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Change and decay ...
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Hi,
>
> A friend of mine, who is on this list, alerted me to this query re the dead
> body's 'personality'. I am a PhD working on divided and dismembered bodies
> in executions and burials in 13th and 14th C England (so I guess I am
> working on 'death'...) Anyway, I seem to recall Elizabeth Brown stating
> something similar about the spirit/ soul leaving the body after all the
> flesh has disappeared in two articles on Boniface VIII's Bull _Detestande
> feritatis_. She refers to an essay written by Robert Hertz (anthropologist)
> in c. 1912 on the attitudes towards the dead body in primitive societies.
> The articles are:
> 'Death and the Human Body in the Later Middle Ages: the Legislation of
> Boniface VIII on the Division of the Corpse' in _Viator_ 12 (1981)
> 'Authority, the Family, and the Dead in Late Medieval France' in _French
> Historical Studies_ 16:4 (1990)
>
> For the _ubi sunt_ motif I would say that Latin elegiac literature might be
> a good starting point, or (closer to home) Old English poetry
> (pre-Conquest).
>
> Hope this is of any help!
>
> Danielle Westerhof
> Centre for Medieval Studies
> University of York
> UK
>
> On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:42:26 -0700, Stacy Kerr <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >I am a graduate student in Southern California who is currently working on
> >death in the later medieval period. From what I have read and seen this
> >statement of Camille's is not supported. Although there was an obsession
> >about the state of the body after death that was well represented in the
> art
> >and literature of the day, the soul was believed to leave the body at the
> >instant of death. There is a ton of surviving artwork that depicts the
> soul
> >leaving the body in the shape of a small person, usually through the mouth.
> >A couple of helpful books are Paul Binski's 'Medieval Death' and 'The Place
> >of the Dead' ed. Bruce Gordon and Peter Marshall.
> >
> >Unfortunately I know nothing about 'ubi sunt'.
> >
> >Stacy Kerr
> >
> >
> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >>
> >> Dear List Members,
> >>
> >> I'm working on Siôn Cent, a 15th century Welsh poet whose poetry
> frequently
> >> includes (among other things ...) extended references to the *ubi sunt*
> >> topos and detailed descriptions of the condition of the body after death.
> In
> >> `The image and the self', *Framing Medieval Bodies*, edd. Sarah Kay and
> Miri
> >> Rubin (Manchester and New York, 1994) pp. 84–5, Michael Camille states
> >> `[...] the body was not thought to be truly dead, its spirit separated
> from
> >> the body, until a year after burial. Only when all the flesh had left it
> >> and it was nothing, nobody, was it `Death''.
> >>
> >> He does not give a source for this belief - can anyone help? Who is doing
> >> Death at the moment?! And can anyone suggest a good summary of the
> >> development of the *ubi sunt* thing in medieval literature?
> >>
> >> Ever in your debt,
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> M.P. Bryant-Quinn
> >> Canolfan Uwchefrydiau Cymreig a Cheltaidd
> >> Aberystwyth
> >>
> >> **********************************************************************
> >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> >> to: [log in to unmask]
> >> To send a message to the list, address it to:
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> >> to: [log in to unmask]
> >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >> For further information, visit our web site:
> >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
> >>
> >
> >**********************************************************************
> >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> >to: [log in to unmask]
> >To send a message to the list, address it to:
> >[log in to unmask]
> >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> >to: [log in to unmask]
> >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> >[log in to unmask]
> >For further information, visit our web site:
> >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> to: [log in to unmask]
> To send a message to the list, address it to:
> [log in to unmask]
> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> to: [log in to unmask]
> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask]
> For further information, visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> to: [log in to unmask]
> To send a message to the list, address it to:
> [log in to unmask]
> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> to: [log in to unmask]
> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask]
> For further information, visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|