Thanks Ron!

I believe that Lou Sebert also has several examples of Canadian GSGS maps which
are unlisted.  I don't know if he's on e-mail but you might ask him to respond
too (or have you do so on his behalf).

I have also checked Jewitts book, Maps for Empire, but he stops short of GSGS -
but does show the development of British (secret) military mapping as a
precursor to the Canadian military mapping program which took over after the
Major Hill report in the early 1900s.

I think there is a parallel here to the Canadian assumption of naval and army
responsibilities from the Imperial authorities and withdrawal of British
garrisons at this time as evidenced by the beginnings of the Can. Hydrographic
Service out of the Admiralty charting estab.

Iain Taylor
Halifax, NS

Ronald Whistance-Smith wrote:

> Huw
>
> I've checked 3 references and so far cannot find information on the Canadian
> GSGS numbers.  Lou Sebert and Norman Nicholson, in _The Maps of
> Canada_ (Wm Dawson & Sons, Folkestone, 1981), pg. 37, say "The military
> surveyors had as their area of primary interest the parts of sourthern
> Ontario and Quebec bordering on the United States. ... this region and
> eventually parts of the Maritime Provinces became the area first mapped by
> GSGS.  The style of the mapping was strongly influenced by the British
> military topographers who in the early days worked alongside their Canadian
> counterparts; so the resemblance to Ordnance Survey maps was not a
> coincidence.  The main scale used was one inch to one mile but some two-mile
> mapping was produced ... ."
> *******************************************************
>
> Don W. Thomson, in vol. 3 of _Men and Meridians_ (Queen's Printer, Ottawa,
> 1969) says on pg. 158 "At the conclusion of the First World War the
> (Military) Survey Division at Ottawa formed under that title in 1906, was
> still engaged in the apparently endless task of depicting the topography of
> eastern Canada, mainly on its standard series of one-mile-to-the-inch maps.
> ...  In 1921 ... about this time revisions of military map sheets covering
> areas in Ontario and Quebec provinces became necessary.  ...  In April of
> that year [1922] the Survey Division, after nine years of 'exile' in the
> Branch of the Master General of the Ordinance, returned to the direct
> control of the General Staff on the new title of Topographical Survey
> Section although its former name, Survey Division, remained in common use
> until 1925 when it was renamed the Geographical Section, General Staff, or
> G.S.G.S. in common terminology.
> ....................
> When Brig.-General McNaughton became Deputy Chief of the General Staff in
> the early 1920s he became profoundly dissatisfied with the traditional but
> more or less obsolete and time-consuming methods of map compilation and
> reproduction employed by the Geographical Section.  He made a trip to
> England to investigate British Army procedures in this type of military
> activity.  On his return to Canada McNaughton embarked upon a personal
> campaign to modernize the Section's map-making techniques.  His innovating
> influence was soon felt in a number of directions.
> ...................................
> Before long the improved output of military maps of the Geographical Section
> began to attract international attention and comment.  Karl Baedeker of
> guide book fame stated in his edition on Canada, 'Of the detailed maps of
> the various parts of the country on larger scales there must be first
> mentioned the excellent topographic maps published by the Department of
> Militia and Defence in two editions.' A senior officer of the War Office in
> London, England, reported that 'the maps sent me [from Canada] are a very
> creditable production.  ...  I have shown the maps to our draughtsman and my
> chief and they consider the work is above our production, and I personally
> feel that your chief and others for whome you reproduce work must feel a
> touch of personal pride when they see such results from a new press and a
> new process.'
> ......................................
> By 1924 some 30,600 square miles of Canada had been surveyed and mapped by
> this military organization, with about 9,000 additional square miles in
> various stages of completion.  A total of 90 sheets in the military standard
> one-mile-to-one-inch scale had been published by the Geographical Section.
> When other federal departments had produced good topographic results such
> work was incorporated into these military maps and, conversely, the
> departments made use of military surveying and mapping.
> .................................................
> The company was re-designated and reorganized as the Army Survey
> Establishment, R.C.E. effective October 1, 1946
> *********************************************************
> In _Canada's Militia and Defence Maps 1905-1931_ by Lorraine Dubreuil,
> published as Occasional Paper Number 4 by the Association of Canadian Map
> Libraries and Archives, contains an index sheet for the series (pg. 5) and
> adds some further information not contained in the other sources.  She
> states that "The two-mile map series, started in 1908, was derived from the
> one-mile maps.  Each time four adjacent one-mile sheets were produced, they
> were combined together and reduced to produce a two-mile sheet.  ... These
> maps were produced until 1931, when their production was transfered (sic)
> from the military, to the civilian mapping program in the Department of
> Technical Surveys.  ... The maps continued to be produced at the same scale
> , and covering exactly the same sheet lines on the index, but now under the
> National Topographic System numbering."
>
> The OP also contains individual sheet records for each sheet in the two
> series, 1 mile, and 2 mile.
> These are the sheets for eastern Canada but I don't find the GSGS series
> numbers.  If I've missed something someone please correct me.
> ***********************************************
> At a later date some further GSGS sheets were issued for other parts of
> Canada.  I recall the Wetaskiwin sheet for one but as I'm not in the map
> collection at the moment I can't retrieve its number.
>
> Obviously there is still work for some of us who may want to tackle this
> subject further.
>
> Ron Whistance-Smith
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Huw Thomas" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 7:03 AM
> Subject: Canadian GSGS
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I have come across  some Canadian mapping which has GSGS numbers,
> > some marked "GSGS Canada".  These maps were produced by the Canadian
> > Dept. of National Defence in the 1930s and '40s. More recent military
> > mapping has MCE numbers.
> >
> > I have, as yet, been unable to track down any information as to how
> > these relate to the British GSGS series.  They only appear to have 3
> > digits not the usual 4 of a GSGS series.
> >
> > Does anybody have any information about these series, ie do the
> > numbers clash with the British GSGS series numbers or are they
> > designed to complement them.  Is there a seperate 440 series entry
> > for them or do they just go under same heading as the British maps.
> >
> > Also I cannot find any info. relating to individual series, eg number
> > of sheets, coverage, indices etc.
> >
> > If anyone knows anything about Canadian military mapping between the
> > wars, I  would be interested in finding out how these maps fit into
> > the scheme of things.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
> > Huw Thomas
> > Assistant Curator
> > Adran Darluniau a Mapiau /
> > Department of Pictures and Maps
> > Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru /
> > National Library of Wales
> > ABERYSTWYTH
> > Ceredigion SY23 3BU
> >
> > Ffon / Tel:   +44-1970-632800 ext.990 (via switchboard)
> > ebost / email: [log in to unmask]
> > Y We / WWW: http://www.llgc.org.uk
> >
> > Nid yw'r neges hon o angenrheidrwydd yn adlewyrchu barn LlGC
> > This message does not necessarily reflect the opinion of NLW
> >