At 01:05 PM 14/03/01 +0100, Tim. wrote:
> > "The following types of patient MUST receive ongoing
> > resuscitation and MUST be removed to hospital .....
> > Any patients where hypothermia may be even remotely
> > suspected"
> >
>
>= anyone who has been dead for about more than 10 minutes. By
>definition they will all be hypothermic. You must be misinterpreting
>this rule if you think that it means resuscitate anyone who you think
>has a reduced core temperature. I would expect paramedics to use
>their clinical acumen to decide on the interpretation.
Cool for the Clinical Acumen thing
It still need to be written down somewhere that
Hypothermia & OD you either transport OR contact online Med Control
There's noting wrong in full proofing your system as much as possible
>The old rule that "you are never dead unless warm and dead" is
>complete bunkum. I am surprised to see it perpetuated in these
>guidelines for paramedics.
Is it a rule or is it a jingle ?
...I get them mixed up ! ? (LOL)
http://www.paramedicine.com/cgi-bin/woda/news/Show?_id=863d
TOM ALEX, Register Staff Writer
Runnells, Ia
An ambulance trip to a Des Moines hospital was delayed for about an hour on
Sunday because of the mistaken belief that the patient was dead.
Rescue workers went to 608 Brown St. in Runnells shortly before 12:50 p.m.
The patient, Gladys Furnoy, 91, appeared to be dead, authorities said.
"It came in as a possible Code 4, a death," said Assistant Chief Dave Long
of the Polk County Sheriff's Office. "The Runnells rescue unit responded"
and arrived within minutes. A deputy arrived a few minutes later.
One of the responders notified sheriff's dispatchers of a death, and
dispatchers contacted Mary Jane Blair, an investigator with the Polk County
Medical Examiner's Office.
Blair arrived at the residence in Runnells about an hour later and found
Furnoy covered with a sheet, officials said.
"The lady wasn't dead," said Blair. "We called for help."
An ambulance helicopter arrived shortly thereafter. It took Furnoy to Mercy
Medical Center in Des Moines.
She died there about 7:40 p.m. Blair said the cause of death appeared to be
a stroke.
A spokesperson for the Runnells rescue group could not be reached for comment.
Officials said they believe Furnoy was stricken Saturday night and lay on
the floor until a family member found her early Sunday afternoon.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010125/aponline065421_000.ht
m
Funeral Home Head Finds Live Body
The Associated Press
Thursday, Jan. 25, 2001; 6:54 a.m. EST
ASHLAND, Mass. -- Emergency medical technicians thought the 39-year-old
woman found slumped in a bathtub was dead. So did funeral director John
Matarese - until he heard a gurgling noise coming from the body bag.
"It scared me half to death," Matarese said. "The girl was alive."
Matarese quickly unzipped the body bag and held the woman's mouth open to
keep her air passages clear. By the time emergency technicians arrived, the
woman was breathing. She's now hospitalized in good condition.
The woman, whose name was not released, was found Saturday unconscious in a
tub of cold water. She apparently overdosed on pills, police said.
Police officers and emergency medical technicians were unable to detect any
signs of life. After police determined she was an apparent suicide victim,
her body was taken to Matarese's funeral home.
"From everybody's observation, more time had elapsed than would have allowed
resuscitation," said Town Administrator Dexter Blois.
The state Department of Public Health is investigating to determine whether
emergency workers acted properly, said spokeswoman Roseanne Pawelec.
"The fact that they didn't take her to the hospital, just assumed she was
dead, is the big mistake," said Dr. Murray Hamlet, a hypothermia
resuscitation expert in Natick, Mass. "People have to understand that cold,
stiff, blue people can be resuscitated."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20001120/aponline141420_000.ht
m
Woman Thought Dead Calls 911 Again
The Associated Press
Monday, Nov. 20, 2000; 2:14 p.m. EST
TOPEKA, Kan. A woman who survived a suicide attempt dialed 911 for help
and then passed out and when rescuers arrived, they thought she was dead.
She had to call 911 a second time before she was given any help.
Firefighters trained as emergency medical technicians were sent to the home
of a 53-year-old woman in Soldier Township on Wednesday after she shot
herself in the head, authorities said.
Firefighters found her unconscious and assumed she was dead, without
checking for a pulse. An ambulance was canceled, and firefighters and
deputies waited outside the home to protect it as a crime scene.
Meanwhile, the woman regained consciousness and called 911 again.
Firefighters outside the home were told of the call and rushed inside to
provide medical care.
"It was a mistake. It should have never happened," said Shawnee County
Sheriff Dick Barta. "I've never seen anything like this happen in my 32
years of law enforcement."
The woman, who was not identified, was listed in fair condition Monday at
the University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas City, Kan.
------------------------------
I believe that all these case involved EMTs & not Medics
Certainly no monitors.
Ian Todd writes :
In other cases a Paramedic may elect not to
resuscitate / cease resuscitation where certain
guidelines are met i.e. three loops of the asystole
protocol where there is no change in ECG etc HOWEVER
certain groups are excluded from this approach namely
: pregnancy, drowning, overdose, chidren, pregnancy,
trauma and where hypothermia is suspected (as a cause
of the arrest). As stated, the guidelines say these
patients MUST receive treatment and transport.
As per usual most Paramedics just use their judgement
anyway !
JRCALC Recognition of Death policy :
http://www.asancep.org.uk/JRCALC/RecognitionofDeathMay00.htm
Reasonably written (may elect)
The MUST is interesting
Certainly if applied to : MUST contact medical control for a final decision
Leaves plenty of places for thoroughness, common sense & a bit of overtriage
Charles Brault EMT-P
------------------------------------------------------------
Free Web Email & Filter Enhancements.
http://www.freewebemail.com/filtertools/
------------------------------------------------------------
|