At 07:47 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
>in general the anti-millennial forces within xnty, both patristic and
>"modern" historical, present millennialism (ie the belief that the kingdom
>of heaven will be here on earth -- an idea with radical political
>consequences), as a jewish notion. (it is -- almost all jewish messianic
>scenarios are this-worldly.) it is, in their view, a later addition to a
>purely spiritual xn message from jesus (the kingdom of heaven is within, is
>not of this world, etc.). the way the church fathers liked to think of it
>was that the literal-minded and simplistic believers that thought that
>jesus' promises (meek to inherit the earth, etc.) were literally going to
>happen in time were like the literal-minded jews who thought that laws like
>circumcision and the sabbath were meant to be taken literally.
>
So are you using the term "juadizer" as we Catholics speak of
"millenarianists?"
>>Actually, I don't think of looking for signs that might foretell the future
>>as particularly Jewish.
>
>no. trying to fortell when the Lord's Day wd come, judgment day, the
>Parousia in xn terms, was/is a widespread tendency in all the monotheistic
>religions. but the issue with millennialism is what you expect to come,
>not the timing.
Are all monotheistic religions eschatological? And can there be monotheism
without eschatologism? And if so why? And if so, what does this say about
the relationship of eschatological characteristics and existing
monotheistic religions in the period?
>
>>It was the pagans who were always checking their tea
>>leaves, animal livers, or whatever. The prophets weren't supposed to be
>>augurs--more like passive conduits for the word of God.
>
>it's a bit more complicated than that. but grosso-modo, every culture
>wants to know what's coming in the future and develops ways to
>tell. judaism and its spin-offs, by anticipating that the next major
>change wd be a cosmic (total and final) resolution to the problems of evil
>in history, upped the ante considerably on what one looked into the future
>for evidence of.
What do you mean by "judaism"? And how can an "ism" "up the ante"? And if
you mean rabbi's or jewish prophets, then which ones wanted to know the
future and so invented prophecies of it? Which prophecies are you talking
about? And why do you think they are millenialists?
Sincerely in Christ,
Br. Alexis Bugnolo
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