It is interesting (ironic?) that Cree man is a Mac(Mc)Donald - to paraphrase
Bob Marley "Stolen from Scotland", and also part of the dreaded imperialist
empire of fast food shops, KFC and Coca Cola.
Rob
Rob Polson
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> ----------
> From: andrew herod[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: andrew herod
> Sent: 13 July 2000 16:32
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: the empire strikes back at what ?
>
> Certainly, it's clear that this Cree man has a good sense of humor and
> historical irony in what he is doing. Indeed, it seems to me that
> irony can be used as a quite biting political statement in many ways. I
> think, though, that the reaction to the response to the original post
> was more along the lines that by appearing to ridicule the actions of
> this "silly colonial" the political point that he was trying to make
> was also being written off. Indeed, there is an issue of power here in
> that colonial powers and mindsets often attempt to poke fun of
> subaltern groups so as to delegitimize them (think of the innumerable
> "Irish jokes" or jokes about "Taffy and Jock", etc.). So, I would
> argue that there is a difference between, for example, subaltern
> peoples poking fun at themselve and at the outside groups that hold
> political or cultural power over them, and those outside groups telling
> jokes/ poking fun at subaltern groups. This is not to say that we
> should engage necessarily in PC language politics where we can't say
> certain things for risk of offence [there are plenty of people I think
> should be offended constantly...capitalists, Nazis, homophobes,
> religious fundamentalists, Tories,], but it is to say that there are
> issues of power that we should be aware of when engaging in this
> practice which we should critically evaluate. Equally, this is not to
> say that, for example, "English bad...Aborigine (anywhere) good"; there
> are many things that "Aboriginal peoples" in different parts of the
> world have done that, I hope, most of us would agree are to be
> condemned (eg female circumcision, human sacrifice) that, in some
> cases, outside powers have done their best to abolish (eg the British
> in India banning the practice of sutee). saying that all English
> people are bad and all aboriginal people are good is perhaps one of the
> crudest reductionism's one can think of. On the other hand, there are
> legitimate political issues that aboriginal populations in Canada and
> elsewhere have that, in my opinion, should not be so simply written off
> as "silly".
>
> As to the significance of categories of national identity, I suspect
> the reason that no one gets agitated about Anglo-saxons' UDI from Rome
> 1500 years ago or reclaiming parts of Iraq etc is that no one in
> Britain who does not have recent family members from Italy or Iraq (ie
> perhaps great-grandparents) seriously considers themselves as "Roman",
> "Iraqi" etc. Indeed, the fact that Welsh, Irish, Scots, and Cornish
> people do agitate against Anglicization is that, for them, these
> national identities do have very real meaning in their daily lives.
>
> Best,
>
> Andy Herod
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:16:53 GMT Dan Knox <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > "Hey "Critical" Geographers (and others on the list),
> >
> > Lawrence Berg wrote:
> > >Even if they were meant to be ironic, Hillary Shaw's comments can >also
> be
> > >read as dismissive of indigenous self determination.
> >
> > Certainly they can...they might also be read as amusing (at least in
> part)
> > and certainly much else liable to cause offence has been posted to this
> list
> > today. What strikes me as most interesting about the "the empire strikes
>
> > back" thread has been the ways in which boundaries are erected and
> > maintained around what we can and cannot be cynical about. In talking
> about
> > the various national identities within the United Kingdom very little is
> off
> > limits and it is _all_ very amusing (largely). Canada too, it seems, is
>
> > amusing. Clearly the Cree man in question has a strong enough sense of
> > irony... The way in which indigenous self determination is being talked
> > about here (and often we are left to wonder who these "selves" are
> anyhow)
> > is patronising in the extreme. There is something slightly offensive
> > running through an argument that, crudely put, runs a little like this:
> >
> > a) we are reflexive social scientists...we do not believe in the
> inherent
> > significance of categories...we thus engage ironically with our western
> > national identities...
> >
> > b) this man and these people are not reflexive social scientists...they
> > believe in the significance of certain categories that mean something to
>
> > them...they do not engage ironically with their national identities (and
> so,
> > by implication, neither must we)...it is really cute and sweet etc etc.
> >
> > I guess, however, that this is also to some extent a class related
> > phenomenon within the UK. Interestingly, again, we see very little
> > discussion on this list of anything that occurs in Ireland. Those
> Orangemen
> > just aren't so damned attractive I guess. We have a whole series of
> value
> > judgements surrounding different ideas of nationhood and different
> > nations...English bad...Aborigine (anywhere) good... Just wondered
> whether
> > or not this ought ever be brought in for questioning ?
> >
> > Hillary - be strong !!
> > Cheers
> > dan"
> > =============
> > Dan Knox
> > Department of Geography
> > University of Durham
> > Durham
> > UK
> > DH1 3LE
> >
> > 0191 374 2472
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
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>
> _____________________
> Dr. Andrew Herod
> Associate Professor
> Department of Geography
> 204 GGS Building
> University of Georgia
> Athens, GA 30602, USA
>
> Tel: 706 542 2856
> Fax: 706 542 2388
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
> When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint.
> When I ask why the poor have no food, they
> call me a Communist.
>
> Dom Helder Camara
>
> "Con el coyote no hay aduana"
>
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