>From the Welsh perspective this one seems highly unlikely - at any rate,
there is little to suggest it, and plenty to suggest otherwise. Certainly
(in so far anything is certain about Wales in this period - we're not
allowed to call it the Dark Ages here but it's pretty damn difficult to see
much) the Christian church was well established in organisational
structures as well as beliefs by the time Augustine arrived. Augustine is
roughly contemporary with the end of the period of the Welsh greats -
David, Cadoc, Illtud, Teilo etc - and there is no evidence that they were
first-generation missionaries. Current orthodoxy seems to be that there is
evidence for a fair level of continuity between Romano-British and early
medieval Christianity and that this is a more likely model than reversion
to paganism (of whatever sort) and reconversion from Ireland.
A good update for the Chadwicks' book mentioned earlier is
Edwards, N. and Lane, A. (eds.), 1992, The Early Church in Wales and the
West: Recent work in Early Christian Archaeology, History andPlace-Names.
Oxford: Oxbow.
Going back to some earlier postings - we do have to distinguish between
pre-Christian 'Celtic'/'insular' beliefs and the Romano-British
christianity which replaces/overlies them. Christianity may have been
stronger among the elite - the traditions are that most of these saints
came from royal or noble families - but it does seem to have been an elite
which dictated the overall religious orientation of the community. I don't
know about the stress on monastic as opposed to diocesan organisation. The
present feeling is that in Wales diocesan organisation did exist from an
early stage and coexists/overlaps with monastery-based organisation.
The problem with the Venomous Bead is that he's writing about 100 years
after the event and from a very anglocentric perspective. But what he
attacks the Welsh for is not their paganism but their refusal to
communicate Christianity to the Anglo-Saxons, thus condemning the
Anglo-Saxons to perdition. (How he thought we were going to do this without
being martyred in droves he doesn't say.)
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray
Department of Humanities and Science
UWCN
'Reading is sometimes an ingenious device for avoiding thought'
James Connolly
<[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]
Sent by: cc:
medieval-religion-request@mail Subject: Re: request for research ideas
base.ac.uk
02/17/00 07:29 PM
Please respond to
medieval-religion
--- Patrick Nugent <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Certainly there were Roman Christians in Britain,
> but how many of the
> Romans were Christians (and at what point in time),
> and to what extent did
> they gain converts among the native population? How
> much Christianity
> survived in Britain as Roman power waned, and in
> what parts?
This is just a thought, but is it possible that the
Christian faith in late and sub- Roman Britain, had
become part of a multithestic faith. What I mean is
that isn't it possible that the Christian God was
taken to be part of a pantheon including other gads
from Saturn to Mithras, and Isis.
Because of this mix up would it then be easier for
Bede to ignore this 'paganism' completely, rendering
the advent of Augustine much more important that it
may have seemed at the time.
I'm sorry if this makes little sense
Jim
=====
All that is gold does not glitter, : Jim Connolly
not all those who wander are lost; : 2 Craighall Ave
The old that is strong does not wither, : Levenshulme
Deep roots are not reached by frost. : Manc. M19 2BR
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