Dear Don
What if we say, rather, that the mess is originated from students being led
to wrong institutions, instead of putting the blame on people within those
institutions?!
In my mind, a technical institution is far different from a higher
teaching/learning one. That, I think, is where and when the mess in design
started, over half a century ago: confusing learning to apply techniques
with learning many other things around those techniques
Yours,

François

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 4:57 PM Don Norman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> A few personal words about education of designers.
>
> When I got my PhD (in mathematical psychology) I was told quite explicitly
> that the dissertation had to be an important contribution to knowledge in
> the field.
>
> This is related to, but different, than Nigel's definition that the
> dissertation mainly serves to demonstrate that one has the capacity and
> training to do research.
>
> But whatever the subtleties of the definition, I believe that it is
> universally agreed upon that the PhD gives a person an appropriate
> background to become a scholar and, in most cases, to work in a university
> (or high-quality research labs in industry or government).
>
> (My training in design came from practice: my interactions with the two
> different design groups at Apple: Industrial design and the usability team
> (and the small group I established that names ourselves"User Experience").
>
> The PhD in most fields most definitely does not give one the training
> required to be a practitioner.  In fact, when I was an executive at Apple,
> I headed the research group, so I hired many PhDs (and also many without
> PhDs -- we didn't care if the person had a Phd: we cared what the person
> actually could accomplish.)
>
> However, one of my colleagues, in charge of software, told me he almost
> would never hire a PhD. Why? Because he needed people who could produce
> reliable, robust code. Many PhD computer Scientists could not do that. Some
> could barely program (computer science is not about programming). And even
> when they did program, they would do just enough to show that their ideas
> were appropriate, and then stop. They had finished their job. The fact that
> it might take a year or two of tedious, painstaking work to transform their
> rough computer coded into a reliable, robust product was of new interest to
> them.  (And, for the record, my friend himself did have a PhD in computer
> science)
>
> Same with my PhD researchers. They were brilliant while simultaneously
> mostly incompetent at producing code that could go into a product.  I would
> show some of their work to the product groups, who would get very excited
> and ask for the code so they could put it into their products. I had to
> explain that the code was written in LISP, which at that time was too slow
> for use in home computers of those days. When I was asked if i could have
> my researchers reprogram it, I explained that they were incompetent to do
> so and had already proven their point and were therefore on to a new
> project.
>
> This experience caused me to argue for a new discipline, a transitional
> discipline that could take the great ideas from researchers and transform
> them into useful, practical products.
>
> ---
> Consider training of business executives i Management schools. They get the
> MBA degree. Professors have PhDs.  Professors, and PhD candidates in
> management schools look down upon MBA students, for the MBAs did not want
> to learn theory - they simply wanted to know what they should do. (I used
> to teach MBA students at the Kellogg School of Management when I was at
> Northwestern).
>
> However, those university professors might some day move to industry, where
> they would work for the very people they had scorned.
>
> --
> In design, there is much confusion about the Phd. Practical designers do
> not need one. That is why the Master's degree is considered a terminal
> degree. MDes (or in some places, MFA).
>
> The Dr. of science is for practitioners but in the United States is rare.
> This means that the DDes degree (Dr. of Design) should be for
> practitioners. This is the case in Germany (although the degree title is
> somewhat different).
>
>
> But the interesting thing is that practitioners are trained by PhDs who are
> pretty clueless about how industry works. Most professors in the university
> have never had a job outside of school.  Most business professors have
> never worked in a business.   The blind are misleading their students.
>
> (In design, now that professors are required to get PhDs, many PhDs are
> being granted by departments and faculty who do not know what a PhD is.
> Once again, the blind misleading their students (and themselves).
> --
>
> Conclusion: It is a mess.
>
> Don
>
>
>


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