So many excellent responses to this question! Another very transferrable aspect is
that syntax trees are a really hardcore form of training in visual representation.
Students may not have to write syntax trees in their careers, but they may well need
to visually represent data, ideas, processes etc. If you can write a syntax tree,
then a flow chart would be child's play! Visual representation I think is generally
under-served in the humanities, and syntax is a special window into it.
I wanted to also add a little thing from a TeachLing discussion about syntax trees
back in 2016, and that's an alternative for sight-impaired students, presenting
syntax diagrams line by line instead of using tree diagrams, e.g.
'the men in this family always eat the donuts'
S > NP (the men in this family), VP (always eat the donuts)
NP > Det (the), N (men), PP
PP > P (in), Det (the), N (town)
VP > Adv (always), V (eat), NP
NP > Det (the), N (donuts)
If you present it just as an alternative method, not flag it up as something that's
specifically there for blind people, then it doesn't even make sight-impaired
students feel awkward. In fact I found many sighted students preferring this method!
(Meanwhile for IPA just say they can swap out symbols for just specifying
place-voice-manner, or back/close etc for vowels. 'Voiced bilabial plosive', etc.
That can actually help thinking through voice-place-manner!)
Returning to the original question, and linking to my point above, teaching the tree
method and line-by-line method together could work out as a nice way of emphasising
different forms of visual representation for the same data, which can work for
different audiences and different purposes. In their CVs they can talk about visual
representation and accessibility, as well as language structure and prescriptivism if
that's relevant.
Best of luck with it all!
Dave
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www.jyu.fi
Chair, EU COST Action CA19102 'Language in the Human-Machine Era' | www.lithme.eu
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On 25/01/2021 03:29, Daniel Ross wrote:
> "When will we ever need this?" rarely has a direct, practical answer outside that
> field of study. (Of course there can be exceptions-- a few years ago I was making an
> interactive map website for a Linguistics project and had to remind myself of the
> trigonometry I'd studied many years before to place pins on the map. But that's an
> exception rather than something most people would expect to encounter when studying
> trigonometry in school.)
>
> But that's not the only reason why it's useful, and if the students can appreciate a
> more abstract answer, I think there are two reasons why syntax trees (or really any
> kind of linguistic analysis) will be worth their time:
>
> 1. A much better replacement for traditional prescriptivism ("Don't split
> infinitives!") is metalinguistic awareness. Many students writing don't have explicit
> reasons for why they write a comma in one place or another, for example. They just
> "guess" (sometimes based on prescriptive rules). Understanding that commas represent
> pauses and/or breaks between major constituents means writers can control their usage
> and have a reason for every comma (or lack thereof). I wish that typical writing
> instruction was more along those lines rather than attempting to convey lists of
> prescriptive rules. Turning syntax trees into metalinguistic intuition is of course
> not a given for all students, but for those who ask the question "when are we going
> to use this?" sincerely, it will be helpful. (I'm reminded of my parents and others
> from an older generation when "diagramming sentences" was still commonly taught in
> schools, but because it was from a prescriptive perspective it was generally seen as
> a waste of time, not a practical skill. But taught with a focus on metalinguistic
> awareness, something along those lines could be very useful.)
>
> 2. Linguistics is an excellent field of study to teach critical thinking (not to
> mention cultural awareness and open-mindedness, but that's a topic for another
> discussion). Even if they never use tree diagrams again, the general analytical
> skills apply widely across almost any domain. The best practical example of this
> might be Optimality Theory, which is basically a long pro/con list. Even without the
> formal tableaux, the same kind of reasoning is used in almost any career. Admittedly
> students might find this abstract answer to be almost evasive for what they thought
> was a direct and practical question, so maybe it's a better conclusion for them to
> reach on their own.
>
> Another answer would be to emphasize how interesting syntax trees are beyond English.
> Robert, I see that you teach in Germany, and a wonderful demonstration of why
> analyzing constituent structure is useful can be seen in German "V2" word order. Why
> do the auxiliaries stay at the end of a clause, or not move in subordinate clauses?
> It's a somewhat advanced topic, but at the end of my intro to syntax courses I try to
> cover at least the basics to show how interesting cross-linguistic variation can be
> from a formal perspective. Syntax classes often focus on just one language for data,
> in order to introduce the theory, but that can under-represent the utility of the
> theory: just like when learning second languages the first thing we need to do is to
> stop relying on the assumption that everything will be fundamentally like our native
> language, syntax trees are much more meaningful if students see how and why they can
> vary. Then it becomes an exercise in explanation rather than labeling, which is why
> the question comes up in the first place, I think.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 3:12 PM Katie Tang <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> I've never drawn a syntax tree for my English learners, but I definitely give
> them a one step abstraction, sometimes giving them pieces of paper to physically
> move around to form questions from statements, or showing them that there's an
> empty space that has to get filled. I'm not quite sure this is approved TESOL
> methodology but my students tell me that it's helpful.
>
> Katie
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:33 PM Jim Jones <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Because I have always been interested in Mathematics as well as Linguistics,
> the tree structure form of analysis has always been intriguing to me, even
> though I have not really delved into it.
>
> Topology, and Combinatorial Analysis or Combinatorics, are relevant, as is
> Decision Theory (a subfield of Business or Economics).
>
> Computer Science subfield(s) also analyze trees. I do not remember the name
> of the branch of study there.
>
> I was first introduced to Syntax as a college Linguistics major at the
> University of Chicago in the early 1980s. In 2016 I received an MA in
> Linguistics from NEIU.
>
> Jim Jones
>
> Freelance Translator and Editor
> BA and MA in Linguistics
>
> MA candidate, English Composition
>
> Editor in Chief, SEEDS at NEIU
>
> Chinese to English Language Chair of the ATA Translation Certification
>
> 1: Chinese, German, and Spanish to English
> 2: Editing, Tutoring, online contact
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> PDF of my 9 point article Chinese Writing available.
> *From: *Hedvig Skirgård
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 24, 2021 1:41 PM
> *To: *[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> *Reply To: *Hedvig Skirgård
> *Subject: *Re: Uses of syntactic analysis for non-linguists
>
>
> Perhaps it would be inspiring to have a look at the "syntax tree of the week"
> tweets from Lee Murray?
> https://twitter.com/MurrayLeeA <https://twitter.com/MurrayLeeA>
>
>
> They often highlight the value of parsing, and how human brains can do it so
> well even when there is ambiguity.
>
>
> *Med vänliga hälsningar**,*
>
> *Hedvig Skirgård*
>
>
> PhD, Australian National University
>
> Postdoc at Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution, Max Planck
> Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
>
> Website <https://sites.google.com/site/hedvigskirgard/>
>
>
>
> Den sön 24 jan. 2021 kl 20:37 skrev Robert Fuchs
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
>
> Dear all
>
> A student of mine asked what use, if any, non-linguists could make of
> syntax trees or, more generally, a hierarchical analysis of syntactic
> structure. Non-linguists also excludes (foreign) language teachers at
> schools.
>
> I'd reply that a deeper understanding of language is surely beneficial
> to everybody who speaks that language, but I'm afraid that won't be a
> very inspiring answer. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks and best
>
> Robert
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Robert Fuchs (JP) | Department of English Language and
> Literature/Institut für Anglistik und Amerikanistik | University of
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