Dear Carma,

You said: "I am a historian, and if I have learned nothing else from my
years of study, it is that when an elite all-White mostly-male group is
making all the decisions, then more often than not the outcomes of those
decisions will (further) advance elite White men's interests, while*
actively harming *women, people of color, LGBTQIA+ people, religious
minorities, people with disabilities, and other already-marginalized and
already-oppressed groups."

Isn't that cherry-picking? How about the Southern Poverty Law Center,
Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch? Or, according to your
knowledge, these are exceptions to the rule? Honest question, of course.

Br,
Gaspar Mostafá.-

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:44 PM Filippo Salustri <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Nigel,
> In my experience, Ken tends to respond in length and in detail under *all*
> circumstances. That's just how he is. He appears to treat everyone like
> that, regardless of their age, position, etc. And though sometimes he
> misses the point - well, so do we all. I personally enjoy reading his
> responses because they are so well written.
>
> Carma has made excellent points, and asked pertinent questions.
> In my own somewhat impoverished "engineering-way" of saying it: If it looks
> like a duck and quacks like a duck, we can safely consider it a duck until
> we discover otherwise. However, depending on the nature of actions we might
> take toward the alleged duck, it would be incumbent on us to ascertain the
> thing's duck-ness.
> And as Carma pointed out so well, this duck called Minerva has some
> troubling features.
>
> I too was curious about it after scanning quickly through the Minerva
> website; Carma's post was very helpful to clarify in my own mind why I had
> this "odd feeling" about the place. However, there were also aspects of
> Minerva that I found quite interesting - especially their "core" courses,
> because those particular skills are so woefully lacking in students at my
> own institution.
>
> So I did a wee bit of informal research and found some evidence that
> Minerva may in fact be not quite as sodden with Old Ways and Old Mistakes
> as might appear on first blush:
>
>    - Creating a university from scratch
>    https://ssir.org/articles/entry/creating_a_university_from_scratch#
>    - How diversity liberated my identity
>
>
> https://medium.com/minerva-schools/how-diversity-liberated-my-identity-2df9e6c3b06
>    - Minerva Schools at Keck Graduate Institute Diversity & Demographics
>
>
> https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/minerva-schools-at-keck-graduate-institute/student-life/diversity/
>    This article is actually not worth reading, as there *are no stats
>    presented* about Minerva. The claim in the article is that such data is
> not
>    available, which is concerning. I offer this link as an indicator of a
>    certain troubling opacity at Minerva. OTOH, it may also be due to
> Minerva's
>    relatively newness.
>    - A curriculum to copy?
>
>
> https://www.insidehighered.com/digital-learning/article/2018/12/05/minerva-project-draws-notice-its-practical-rigorous-curriculum
>    The key point of interest here is they're desire to make their
>    *curriculum* available to other schools.
>    To me, this means a chance to take whatever bits of their work are most
>    useful in my own school culture - or at least what we'd like our school
>    culture to be - and use it without having to incur the development costs
>    ourselves.
>
> This is by no means a rigorous assessment of their program.
> It's what I did on the web while having my morning coffee.
> And I may have it completely wrong.
>
> And while I remain wary of the place, it does appear to have some features
> that I find very interesting and potentially very useful.
> And if I find a way to transfer those to my own work and institution,
> well... then Minerva will have served a purpose for me and my students.
>
> One last thing: the whole curriculum thing at Minerva put me in mind of
> CDIO (http://www.cdio.org/), an initiative founded at MIT in the late '90s
> I think to revitalize engineering education, that has somewhat similar
> goals. CDIO has made, and continues to make, substantive contributions on
> the diversity and inclusion front even though its principal focus is
> necessarily on the "technical" side of things.
> I'll note that CDIO was also originally conceived of by a bunch of
> middle-aged white guys.
>
> And please note: I'm not saying middle-aged white guys will save the world.
> All I'm saying is: the idea matters more than the ideator.
>
> \V/_  /fas
>
> *Prof. Filippo A. Salustri*
>
> Ph.D., P.Eng., FCEEA <https://ceea.ca/nominations-and-awards/#fellows>
>
> Associate Professor, Mechanical Engineering, Ryerson University
>
> Room EPH-332C | EMAIL <[log in to unmask]> | WEB
> <https://filsalustri.wordpress.com/> | ORCID
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3689-5112>
>
> "I do not share your view that the scientist should observe silence in
> political matters." -Albert Einstein
>
> "If there is to be any peace it will come through being, not having."
> -Henry Miller
>
> “Some people are afraid to change - they try so desperately to silence us.”
> -Greta Thunberg
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 at 05:30, Nigel Cross <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Dear Ken,
> > I have to say that your response to Carma Gorman seemed a heck of an
> > over-reaction. It reminded me of a response I also once received from you
> > on this list; I protested then that it came across as 'a chronic
> variation
> > of mansplaining'.
> > Carma's critique of the Minerva project seemed pertinent and valid to me.
> > I know nothing of Minerva, and I'm not sure it's relevant for this list,
> > but a quick look at its website was not re-assuring. Their sloganised
> > prospectus material reads like the same old, platitudinous business hype.
> > Example: "Professional Learning and Development Programs: Talent
> > development and leadership training for a culture of innovation and a
> > lasting competitive advantage". Sounds like the same old, same old
> business.
> > And what happened to your self-imposed rule of short responses when you
> > don't agree with something?
> >
> > Nigel Cross
> >
> >
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