Hi all,
Pretty passionate discussion, to say the least. If you don't mind, I will
try to keep it civil for a change.
Carma, I did pose a question and I think your answer is here: "Do a little
historical homework, and I suspect you'll discover that most, if not all,
of the longest-lived, most effective social justice-seeking
groups—including the ones initially founded by White men, like Amnesty
International—fairly quickly made room for people other than White males to
help steer the organization's goals and actions." Correct me if I am wrong,
but this means you think there is no cherry-picking, and if we were to find
an effective social justice-seeking group it would rarely be formed by only
white males, and if it was, they must have made room at one point for
'other people other than White male'. Fair enough, thanks for the answer.
Regardless, I am not sure this proves your point. Julian Bond was not a
founder, but a president, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center
itself. Regarding HRW, Robert Bernstein who was the head of the group
enlisted Jeri Laber with whom he had worked before. She was a founding
member, of course (one of five, to my understanding). The point being (also
the point you made, Carma), that groups that were kick-started by white
males, had those white males making decisions of incorporating people of
color or women (the three examples that I gave). Why would they do that,
when according to you, Carma, "when an elite all-White mostly-male group is
making all the decisions, then more often than not the outcomes of those
decisions will (further) advance elite White men's interests". And if it is
the case that groups that are kick-started by white males are able to make
a wise decision and incorporate people of color, women, etc, as they
progress forward, why expect differently from Minerva?
If you don't believe my questions are sincere, or if you believe they are
stupid, do move along. It's hard to express genuine curiosity lately
without seeming accusatory. The three examples I provided from the top of
my head were to support my question, not to prove you wrong.
Gunnar, I posed a question. I did not have a counter argument. I do not
know whether the majority of groups formed by white males only aim to
advance white male's interests (whatever those are). I named three groups
that were started by white males (see above). This was done to show that
there are examples out there of groups started by white males that did not
have the aim to 'advance white men's interest'. Do you believe that the
claim "more often than not" can be supported by her examples, when
analyzing a group of hundreds of millions of people? Regarding these
organizations, you said "If, however, they were being formed today, one
might advise them to heed Carma's advice". May I ask why?
Br,
Gaspar.-
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:21 AM David Sless <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > On 4 Aug 2020, at 11:58 am, Heidi Overhill <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > I was planning to leave these rather dull observations in my unsent
> "draft" file, but Carma's last message encouraged me to join in the
> shouting.
>
> I love the shouting.
>
> BTW, I’m struck by the boring similarity of organisations and ventures
> that recite the same design/innovation/user-centred/collaborative
> co-designing mantra. It seems to me an excersise in marketing language
> worthy of an ambitious toothpaste brand.
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
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