HI all,
I'm a bit late to this discussion but I would just like to say a huge THANKS to Erin for raising awareness of gender issues to the men in our community (please do fill in her questionnaire if you can) and an equally massive THANKS to Alex, Elisabeth, Chris and Martin for reminding us why these discussions are critical to all (geoscience) communities, especially on lists like these, and to remind us to be kind.
Just be nice, people!
And if you can't be nice, please don't contribute to the discussion!
__
Clare
Dr Clare Warren | Senior Lecturer
School of Environment, Earth and Ecosystem Sciences, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes MK7 6AA
+44 (0) 1908 652558 | [log in to unmask] | www.open.ac.uk <http://www.open.ac.uk/>
Twitter: @geologyclare
On 15/07/2019, 20:50, "Tectonics & structural geology discussion list on behalf of Alex Brett" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> wrote:
Jean-Luc:
I'm a genderqueer PhD student in the Earth Sciences.
It is entirely possible to discuss structural geology (or indeed to ask
people to refocus on structural geology) without being rude and
dismissive about members of your community. The cumulative effect of
colleagues' refusal to treat me with a bare minimum of respect - by, for
example, referring to me with the correct pronouns, or not treating my
experience of gender as a joke - absolutely is to create an environment
in which I am *not* "welcome to improve our knowledge in structural
geology".
I would be grateful if you would consider your words, and their impact
on how welcoming any given environment is, more carefully in future.
Cordially,
Alex
On 15/07/2019 20:36, Jean-Luc Régnier wrote:
> Dear Martin,
>
> "perhaps it’s a discussion about something more important."
> if this subject is more important than geology and science then please
> enjoy other mailing-list about gender equity. There are plenty of them.
> Best regards,
> Jean-Luc Régnier
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Le lundi 15 juillet 2019 à 20:27:55 UTC+1, Martin Hand
> <[log in to unmask]> a écrit :
>
>
> Dear Jean-Luc,
> Your point about the mail list being about structural geology is curious
> in the light that, given the number of structural geologists that
> probably self-claim to exist, the amount of discussion on that topic on
> this mail list is rather minimal.
>
> So discussion about gender in geoscience makes a welcome change, and
> perhaps it’s a discussion about something more important.
>
> And the forum doesn’t really matter does it? If structural geologists
> for the most part seemingly don’t use the mail list for discussion on
> structural geology, why not use it for something else?
>
> Martin Hand
> Department of Earth Sciences
> University of Adelaide
> Phone : +61 (0)8 8313 4347
> Mobile: +61 (0)419 314 306
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/geothermal/
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/martin.hand
>
> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
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>
> On 15 Jul 2019, at 8:42 pm, Jean-Luc Régnier
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
>> Yes Elisabeth,
>>
>> "we are all equal but some of us are more equal"
>>
>> but the mailing-list is about structural geology, so this discussion
>> starts to be quite boring.
>> All human and gases genders are welcome to improve our knowledge in
>> structural geology.
>> All the best,
>>
>> Jean-Luc Régnier
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Le lundi 15 juillet 2019 à 19:32:07 UTC+1, Elisabeth Nadin
>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> I think that this has turned into an interesting discussion and I like
>> Alexander's attempt to "quantify" the problem.
>>
>> I will add my two cents: Let's think outside of the box we are all
>> trying to cram ourselves into. Let's also consider that each
>> individual, albeit trained within the methodology of science(s), has
>> the potential of something more or different to contribute than the
>> products we have used to measure success until now. Hence, our metrics
>> may be off.
>>
>> *Alternative*: science and how it's done is and should be constantly
>> changing (heck, so is the world!), and we are just trying to keep up.
>>
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 2:42 AM Alexander Webb <[log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello All -
>>
>> Let me add a few points to help this discussion along, framed in
>> the language of science:
>>
>> *Problem*: there are too few women in science.
>> *Hypotheses*: (1) Women’s brains are not as good at science. (2)
>> Women are kept out of science.
>> *Predictions*: For hypothesis 1: Women would do poorly in aptitude
>> measures. For hypothesis 2: Science would fail to be a meritocracy
>> in measurable ways.
>> *Tests*:
>> Hypothesis 1 prediction fails:
>> Women’s brains are not measurably distinct from men’s brains in
>> terms of scientific aptitude (and all other known aptitudes).
>> - Hoffman et al. (2011) Nurture affects gender differences in
>> spatial abilities. PNAS 108, 14786-14788.
>> - Saini (2017) Inferior: How science got women wrong – and the new
>> research that’s rewriting the story. Beacon Press, Boston (USA),
>> 213p.
>>
>> Hypothesis 2 prediction succeeds:
>> There is bias against women in promotion, space and resource
>> allocation, committee assignments, and leadership opportunities.
>> - Greider et al. (2017) Not just Salk. Science 357, 1105-1106.
>> - Hill et al. (2010) “Why so few? Women in Science, Technology,
>> Engineering, and Mathematics” American Association of University
>> Women, 107p.
>> - MIT (1999) “A study on the status of women faculty in science at
>> MIT”; http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.pdf
>> Sege et al. (2015) Sex differences in institutional support for
>> junior biomedical researchers. JAMA 314, 1175-1177.
>>
>> Recommendation letters for women are worse in length and tone.
>> - Dutt et al. (2016) Gender differences in recommendation letters
>> for postdoctoral fellowships in geoscience. Nature Geoscience 9,
>> 805-808.
>> - Trix and Psenka (2003) Exploring the color of glass: letters of
>> recommendation for female and male medical faculty. Discourse &
>> Society 14, 191-220.
>>
>> Women are offered fewer opportunities to serve as journal referees
>> than justified.
>> - Lerback and Hanson (2017) Journals invite too few women to
>> referee. Nature 541, 455-457.
>>
>> Two-body problems are more often considered an issue in hiring
>> women than in hiring men.
>> - Rivera (2017) When two bodies are (not) a problem: Gender and
>> relationship status discrimination in academic hiring. American
>> Sociological Review 82, 1111-1138.
>>
>> With “authors contributing equally,” fewer women end up as first
>> author than justified.
>> - Broderick and Casadevall (2018) Disequilibrium in gender ratios
>> among authors who contributed equally. bioRxiv.
>>
>> Women in science suffer significant gender harassment: “verbal and
>> nonverbal behaviors that convey hostility, objectification,
>> exclusion or second-class status.”
>> - National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2018.
>> Sexual Harassment of Women: Climate, Culture, and Consequences in
>> Academic Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. Washington, DC: The
>> National Academies Press.
>>
>> Women are offered fewer colloquium speaking slots at prestigious
>> universities than justified.
>> - Nittrouer et al. (2018) Gender disparities in colloquium
>> speakers at top universities. PNAS 115, 104-108.
>>
>> Top-ranked male faculty train and hire fewer women.
>> - Sheltzer and Smith (2014) Elite male faculty in the life
>> sciences employ fewer women. PNAS 111, 10107-10112.
>>
>> Women are paid less than justified.
>> - Freund et al. (2016) Inequities in academic compensation by
>> gender: A follow-up to the National Faculty Survey cohort study.
>> Acad Med 91, 1068-1073.
>>
>> *Identical CVs are rated lower when labeled with female names*.
>> - Moss-Racusin et al. (2012) Science faculty’s subtle gender
>> biases favor male students. PNAS 109, 16474-16479.
>> - Steinpreis et al. (1999) The impact of gender on the review of
>> the curricula vitae of job applicants and tenure candidates: A
>> national empirical study. Sex Roles 41, 509-528.
>>
>> I highlight the last test because considering all of the other
>> biases listed here, which I cannot pretend is a complete list, it
>> is astonishing that people don't understand that in the real
>> world, an equal resume with a female name was accomplished against
>> the tide. In such cases, the woman is generally the better
>> candidate. The so-called juggernaut is all around us, but it's the
>> opposite to Steven Athearn's expectation.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Alex Webb, University of Hong Kong
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 6:28 PM Steven Athearn <[log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephanie,
>>
>> Your message for me raises the more general problem, of how
>> objections to the implicit ideological coercion which many
>> perceive in the gender "equity" juggernaut may be raised and
>> registered. For example, it is hardly the case - as the final
>> question of the survey assumes, that continued numerical male
>> dominance in a few science fields shows the existence of any
>> sort of gender bias against women in that field. Rather it is
>> also consistent with strong biases /against/ men and /for/
>> women in hiring, promotion, scholarships, and general support
>> - as is arguably true in many male majority science fields today.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Steven Athearn
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Tectonics & structural geology discussion list
>> <[log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Stephanie
>> Olen <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2019 4:57 AM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> *Subject:* Re: Gender Equity and Role Models in Earth Sciences
>> - 5 minute Survey (MEN ONLY)
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I realise that your intent in your response to Erin's email
>> may have only been a joke. But I would ask you to consider
>> that this a mailing group for a professional community, which
>> likely includes people who are not cis-gendered. Even if not,
>> I think it's important in this context that we respect
>> personal identities, and don't use them as a punchline for
>> joke. Especially in what for many of us is an extension of our
>> place of work. Please be respectful.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Dr. Stephanie Olen
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:42 PM james grist
>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> As a man I'm disapoint that you imply there are only 2
>> genders. What about all the modern genders that have
>> recently been released? e.g. gender fluid, mtf transexual,
>> bigender. Soon there will be more genders released, such
>> as solid gender , gas gender and condensed matter gender
>> which will interesting core modelers here no doubt.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 5:33 AM Erin Martin
>> <[log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Dear all (apologies for cross-posting),____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> I am a Geology PhD student and an intern with
>> TravelingGeologist. As part of my internship and work
>> in Science Outreach, I wanted to learn more about the
>> varying experiences of men and women in Earth Science,
>> and to discuss how to move towards greater equity and
>> diversity in the sciences.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Our early findings show that Students and Early Career
>> Researchers are looking to social media for positive
>> role-models and that social media platforms such as
>> Instagram and Facebook allow access to role-models
>> from diverse backgrounds.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> These findings are exciting; however, we currently
>> have over one thousand survey responses from women and
>> very few from men. We want responses from men to
>> investigate the effects of gender.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> The anonymous survey (linked below) aims to
>> investigate the role that social media plays in
>> positively influencing the experiences of women in
>> science. The results of this survey will be presented
>> in the session "14a: Communicating Science: Reaching
>> beyond our community" at Goldschmidt2019, and, "T179,
>> Evidence-Based Theory and Practice of Science
>> Communication in the Geosciences: New Methods,
>> Avenues, and Audiences" at 2019 Geological Society of
>> America Annual Meeting.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Please feel free to share this with your friends and
>> departments.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> The survey can be accessed here:
>> https://forms.gle/EqbTwyxAdJBsWHdp8 ____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Kind Regards,____
>>
>> Erin____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Erin Martin____
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dr. Stephanie M. Olen
>> University of Potsdam
>> Institute of Earth and Environmental Science
>> Potsdam, Germany
>>
>> +49 331 977 6381
>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alex Webb
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Earth Sciences
>> James Lee Building
>> The University of Hong Kong
>> Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong
>> https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=-KDk-pcAAAAJ&hl=en
>> http://www.earthsciences.hku.hk/people/academic-staff/dr-webb-alex
>>
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