Excellent points, thank you. Lola
On Monday, 22 July 2019, QUIROZ-URIA, SITNA <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>
>
> Dear Cathy and others in this conversation,
>
> I am usually a quiet witness to these threats and dislike responding
> publicly, but I think that you raise very important issues in your emails
> below, and I would like to make a couple of comments. I quote from your
> emails:
>
> When I spent 5 years talking weekly to members of the
> > "white English" population of Swindon about this subject, many were
> > frankly fed of being told by whom they perceived as the 'right on
> > brigade', i.e. politicians, academics, people writing in the Guardian
> > etc that they had no culture, but it was okay for BME groups to have
> > er culture. If we look at phenomena like Brexit, Trump, the shift to
> > more people voting for far right parties in Europe, it is no
> > coincidence that among the many reasons why some of the voting public
> > are turning to these options, is a perception that some people with
> > these inclinations hold that they're sick of being told they can't
> > have 'their own culture' whilst minority and marginalised groups can,
> > and that they want to feel front and centre in their countries of origin
> again.
> "not everybody who likes to identify with their neighbours or the way that
> life is lived across a nation is intentionally racist or wants to exclude
> others"
>
>
> I think that this hits the nail on the head and touches a very sensitive
> nerve on the current political situation in the UK. I think that as
> anthropologists, we have the responsibility to stop and carefully reflect
> on what is going on here, and on the feelings of the people that have been
> captured here. I have listened to this same argument many times in the past
> three years, and it is very tempting to keep reproducing it. This is what
> has divided this country between remainers and leavers. I have lived in
> the UK for the past 15 years, I have seen this country changed during this
> time, and I can honestly and respectfully say that I don’t think that
> people in the UK are being *denied* their own culture. The issue, from my
> point of view, is predominantly a matter of class and how this plays out in
> relation to definitions of national identity and how different sectors of
> the population embody or react to this idea of being British -whatever that
> might mean. Second, there is no doubt that no matter how different sectors
> define or perceive 'Britishness', this idea has been tightly linked to a
> notion of empire, which is currently crumbling, and this phenomenon is
> producing a generalised crisis of identity that has crystallised on
> 'Brexit'. This idea of 'Britishness' no matter how diverse due to its
> regional or class elements (which by the way it is not exceptional of this
> society, although people tend to present it as such), carries a sense of
> nostalgia for a glorious past of the Victorian era, and a certain sense of
> superiority that obviously manifest itself quite differently among
> different sectors of the population. This sense of identity currently
> appears to be under threat with the loss of British influence in the world,
> an increase of immigration, etc., all the things that we already know.
> Nonetheless, I find fascinating the different reactions that the different
> sectors in this country have towards this threat. I agree that in many
> ways, the liberal class in this country, politicians, academics, etc., the
> so-called 'Guardian readers', tend to adopt a self-righteous and high-brow
> attitude towards the working class and those who voted to leave. Liberals
> tend to justify their rightful position by associating themselves with the
> 'oppressed minorities', immigrants, refugees, etc., while adopting a rather
> exaggerated self-deprecating attitude towards certain elements of
> 'Britishness', such as the national anthem. They defend multi-culturalism,
> but are very often blinded by their own liberal assumptions that are
> consistently used as a measuring stick to assess, often judge, and impose
> on non-western others, or by adopting a 'saviour' attitude that ultimately
> disempowers people. In contrast, more conservative sectors react against
> this position by either saying that they are being denied their right to
> have their culture (without realising that this is actually what
> predominates! But obviously one cannot see what it is the norm), or by
> retracting and adopting an insular position, such as voting for Brexit,
> isolating themselves in their communities, being suspicious about
> foreigners, you name it. But this position equally carries a sense of
> superiority, like the 'well intentioned' Liberal one. I say this as
> someone who could be classified in this society as a member of the 'BAME'
> group. Nonetheless, I have made a strong effort to fully integrate into
> this society, meaning that I intentionally don’t gravitate towards 'my
> crowd', and make a conscious effort to mix and mingle with the predominant
> regional culture. But, throughout the years, I have seen how, on different
> sides of the spectrum, the common denominator has been a certain sense of
> superiority and pride, although expressed in different ways.
>
> I think that as anthropologists, particularly in this country, we really
> need to critically think of these issues and of the assumptions we carry
> with us. British anthropological tradition, unfortunately, still carries a
> very heavy legacy of the colonial past. The worrying thing is that many
> anthropologists don't even seem to be aware of it. Others, such as myself,
> have intentionally or unintentionally assimilated it as we have been
> trained and socialised into this discipline. We need to question why, by
> this time in the history of the discipline, there aren’t many more studies
> of British people, in all their diversity, as Yohai has pointed out.
> Although we, as anthropologists, enjoy using language that appears to be
> analytical, de-personalised and distant, or praise ourselves for being
> critical or 'revolutionary', actually, more often than not, we carry and
> keep reproducing very pernicious biases. After all, we all have been cut
> from the same cloth. We embody and keep legitimising the tradition of a
> discipline that has a particular historical legacy tied with empire in the
> UK and France, as well as other countries in Europe, and with imperialism
> in the US. I agree with Peter that we need to be very careful with how we
> use the concept of culture, especially in these current times. It has been
> popularly used to essentialise others and to adopt extreme positions. We,
> academically, cannot fall into the same trap.
>
> With all best wishes,
>
> Sitna
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Anthropology-Matters forum mailing list <
> [log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Cathy Baldwin
> Sent: 22 July 2019 09:48
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: British cultural code
>
> This is all true, but not everybody who likes to identify with their
> neighbours or the way that life is lived across a nation is intentionally
> racist or wants to exclude others. Anthropological studies tend to focus on
> the 'extremes' of potential including and excluding. The danger is in
> extremes but this is true of all types of group formation, i.e. hobby
> groups, political groups, groups in the school playground, regional
> geographic groups, groups based on shared sexuality or age....
> One can neither deny the human urge to seek a sense of belonging and
> identify with groups and feel secure and familiar from what is shared, and
> proselytise that it's always a force for evil, nor recommend it as the best
> mode of human organisation.
> Perhaps anthropologists are extraordinary or extraterrestrial humans who
> are devoid of the urge to belong, feel safe, identify, have a set of people
> they relate to through common ways and give it a name - but most members of
> populations aren't.
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 at 09:14, Peter Cave <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I think Cathy Baldwin's well made point shows precisely why the
> > concept of 'culture' should be abandoned, and illustrates what I said
> > about its being used to include some and exclude others. As Yohai said
> > in his post, it is problematic to make generalisations about the
> > 'culture' of peoples in Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc. It is just
> > as problematic to make generalisations about the 'culture' of groups
> > anywhere, including the group that an individual considers herself or
> > himself to belong to. Saying 'I am an X, and doing Y is our culture',
> > is going beyond just saying 'doing Y is something many people who
> > consider themselves X do'; it is saying 'doing Y is a very well
> > established aspect of being X, and not just well established but
> > valuable enough to be considered legitimate and a marker of this
> > group'. It is a way of making a claim that a group is cohesive and
> > distinctive. It is understandable why vulnerable minority groups might
> > want to do this, but it still tends to act to homogenize, reify, and
> > threaten the autonomy of less powerful individuals within the group
> > who might not necessarily want to do what others are doing; while in
> > the hands of more powerful groups, it is a way of asserting the
> > primacy of certain practices and norms, and excluding other practices,
> > and people who are seen as outside one's own group ('they don't share
> > our culture'; 'this is British/German/Japanese culture, that isn't', 'we
> need to maintain traditional English/Japanese culture').
> >
> > Peter Cave
> > Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
> > SALC, University of Manchester
> > Samuel Alexander Building
> > Oxford Road
> > Manchester M13 9PL
> > United Kingdom
> > Tel: +44 (0)161 275 3195
> > www.manchester.ac.uk/research/peter.cave/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Cathy Baldwin [[log in to unmask]]
> > *Sent:* 21 July 2019 22:26
> > *To:* Peter Cave
> > *Cc:* [log in to unmask]
> > *Subject:* Re: British cultural code
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I think the danger of abandoning the concept of 'culture' and using
> > other terms to describe er common patterns of behaviour, thought,
> > practices, norms, expressions etc within a geographic area is that the
> > anthropologist become the elite spokesperson who 'denies' what some
> > other folks believes exist and they identify with. And this is just as
> > dangerous as 'reification' or using culture narratives to create
> > imaginary boundaries and exclude some people from this cultural
> > entity/centre. When I spent 5 years talking weekly to members of the
> > "white English" population of Swindon about this subject, many were
> > frankly fed of being told by whom they perceived as the 'right on
> > brigade', i.e. politicians, academics, people writing in the Guardian
> > etc that they had no culture, but it was okay for BME groups to have
> > er culture. If we look at phenomena like Brexit, Trump, the shift to
> > more people voting for far right parties in Europe, it is no
> > coincidence that among the many reasons why some of the voting public
> > are turning to these options, is a perception that some people with
> > these inclinations hold that they're sick of being told they can't
> > have 'their own culture' whilst minority and marginalised groups can,
> > and that they want to feel front and centre in their countries of origin
> again.
> > Look at the writing of Michael Skey at UEA - he writes very powerfully
> > on this subject.
> >
> > Surely the answer is common sense and balance when writing about such
> > subjects?
> > Cheers,
> > Cathy
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 22:10, Peter Cave <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Yohai
> >>
> >> Your points are well made. However, to my mind, as an anthropologist
> >> who mainly researches Japan, what you say points to the reason why it
> >> would be better to stop using the concept of culture altogether, and
> >> certainly why it would be better not to make generalisations about
> >> 'cultures' in Asia, Africa, Latin America, or anywhere else. One of
> >> the spurs for my own abandonment of the concept of 'culture' is
> >> precisely that I find it not only unhelpful but deeply misleading
> >> when trying to understand the country I know best and grew up in,
> >> England. I much prefer more precise terms such as 'practice',
> >> 'assumption', 'expectation' etc, which do not entail the idea of a
> >> (mythical) whole (which mythical 'whole' inevitably becomes reified and
> used as a way of including some and excluding others).
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> Peter Cave
> >> Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
> >> SALC, University of Manchester
> >> Samuel Alexander Building
> >> Oxford Road
> >> Manchester M13 9PL
> >> United Kingdom
> >> Tel: +44 (0)161 275 3195
> >> www.manchester.ac.uk/research/peter.cave/
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: The Anthropology-Matters forum mailing list [
> >> [log in to unmask]] on behalf of ana bravo [
> >> [log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: 21 July 2019 20:14
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: British cultural code
> >>
> >> Hi Yohai,
> >>
> >> In case it helps, the book Bravo-Moreno, A. 2006. "Migration, Gender
> >> and National Identity: Spanish Migrant Women in London". Oxford Peter
> >> Lang, is based on my PhD thesis which is an ethnography. Some of the
> chapters are:
> >> “NARRATIVES OF ENGLISHNESS AND FOREIGNNESS, WORKING CLASS WOMEN”, and
> >> “NARRATIVES OF ENGLISHNESS AND FOREIGNNESS: MIDDLE AND UPPER MIDDLE
> >> CLASS WOMEN”. “In exploring national and gender identities the terms
> >> "Spanishness" and "Englishness" are utilised. These terms define -
> >> for the purposes of this study - what women view as characteristic of
> >> Spanish and English societies and ways of life, respectively. This is
> >> not to say that there is an essence to the concept of "Spanishness"
> >> or "Englishness". The meaning of those concepts is as varied as
> >> respondents' perceptions of what identifies each socio-cultural
> setting” (2006: 16).
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Ana
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sunday, 21 July 2019, 15:40:23 BST, Cathy Baldwin <
> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Try Danny Miller at UCL, I don't know if there is more in the
> >> anthropology of material culture in the UK, I would have thought so.
> >>
> >> On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 15:08, Cathy Baldwin <
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It's complicated in the UK because there are 4 constituent nations
> >> > with their own nationalisms, and strong regional identities, some
> >> > of which involve rejecting notions of nationalism as defined by the
> >> > political centre, i.e. the UK parliament in London, England. what I
> >> > found in my
> >> PhD
> >> > on notions of Britishness among several UK ethnic groups was that
> >> > white working class and middle class people in Swindon, SW England,
> >> > largely identified with a citizenship based 'British national
> >> > identity' if they were on the left of the political spectrum, and
> >> > would identify as
> >> British
> >> > over English, but also culturally English or something else....half
> >> > Irish/half English, Cumbrian, etc. Folks from this demographic,
> >> > more on
> >> the
> >> > right of the political spectrum tended to look at themselves as
> >> culturally
> >> > English first, and British second or not at all. Many thought there
> >> > was
> >> a
> >> > British culture and made many references to their
> >> > relatives/experiences
> >> in
> >> > the other nations of the UK, i.e Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.
> >> >
> >> > There is some great social science work on UK cultures but largely
> >> > not from anthropologists. Look at Michael Skey, a media
> >> > ethnographer and
> >> social
> >> > scientist at UEA:
> >> >
> >> https://www.lboro.ac.uk/subjects/communication-media/staff/michael-sk
> >> ey/
> >> >
> >> > - Skey, Michael (2017/2011) *National Belonging & Everyday Life*,
> >> > Palgrave MacMillan
> >> > -
> >> > - Skey, Michael (2013) Why do nations matter? *British Journal of
> >> > Sociology, *64(1): 81-98
> >> > - Skey, Michael & Antonsich, Marco (Eds) (2017) *Everyday
> Nationhood:
> >> > Theorising Belonging, Culture & Identity After Banal Nationalism*,
> >> > Palgrave MacMillan
> >> >
> >> > Many anthropologists of Britain won't play ball, aren't
> >> > interested, or are too busy generalising about African, Asian,
> >> > Pacific and Latin
> >> American
> >> > cultures. Sad to see that 8 years after my PhD thesis, this is
> >> > still the case.
> >> >
> >> > My PhD: Locating Britishness? Mediating Identity, Ethnicity,
> >> > Community
> >> and
> >> > Place in Multi-Ethnic Swindon (2011) was done at the Institute of
> >> > Social and Cultural Anthropology, University of Oxford. It had to
> >> > be examined
> >> by 2
> >> > sociologists from outside Oxford as there was nobody in
> >> > anthropology nationally that was suitable. They were great
> sociologists.
> >> >
> >> > Shame that with all these wonderful reflexivity which has long been
> >> trendy
> >> > in anthro theorising, that many UK anthros don't hold the mirror up
> >> > to themselves and their own practices by refusing to acknowledge
> >> > that their own have a culture ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Cathy
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 14:50, Yohai Hakak <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello all,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks again for the many responses and helpful suggestions.
> >> >>
> >> >> My own summary of this email trail is as follows:
> >> >>
> >> >> 1) Quite a few weren't happy with the intention to explore British
> >> culture
> >> >> and suggested a more regional perspective, which I agree with.
> >> Exploring
> >> >> cultural traits in relation Britain was seen as questionable, not
> >> >> a serious scholarly pursuit.
> >> >>
> >> >> 2) Many of the ethnographic studies suggested focus on marginal
> >> >> and minority groups within the UK (travellers, BME, working class
> >> >> or rural
> >> >> communities) and very little exploring white middle class Britain
> >> >> (or
> >> any
> >> >> of its regions).
> >> >>
> >> >> 3) From the many references to Kate Fox's Watching the English,
> >> >> which I enjoyed reading, I infer that:
> >> >>
> >> >> a. She's a gifted author and had many satisfied readers
> >> >>
> >> >> b. There are almost no alternatives
> >> >>
> >> >> At the same time, it was mentioned in several responses that she's
> >> >> not
> >> an
> >> >> academic scholar and doesn't have a PhD. Other references
> >> >> suggested - which I look forward reading - relating to mainstream
> >> >> Britain, are also not regarded as 'proper' academic writing.
> >> >> Somehow 'proper' academics don't write about the topic.
> >> >>
> >> >> 4) It is intriguing to see that in an anthropological mailing list
> >> where
> >> >> studies are regularly shared in which generalisations are made in
> >> relation
> >> >> to endless numbers of Asian, African and South-American cultures,
> >> >> the possibility of applying the cultural lens to British society
> >> >> raises so many objections or reservations and that the
> >> >> anthropological studies of
> >> white
> >> >> middle class British culture are so rare and practically don't exist.
> >> This
> >> >> non existence of white middle class British culture as an object
> >> >> for anthropological research renders it invisible.
> >> >> During my own anthropological training, I learnt about the Crisis
> >> >> of Representation during the 1980s that was followed by a shift to
> >> >> doing 'Anthropology at Home' as was also mentioned by Cathy
> >> >> Baldwin, but this might relate more to the American anthropological
> tradition?!
> >> >>
> >> >> 5) All of this leaves me wondering whether this might be just
> >> >> another
> >> case
> >> >> of how being invisible serves the interest of the powerful. We all
> >> >> know that the assumption that men have no gender, and white people
> >> >> have no
> >> race
> >> >> is rife among these groups, so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise if
> >> >> a similar assumption that white middle class Brits have no
> >> >> particular culture is also common?
> >> >>
> >> >> Happy to be corrected.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best wishes,
> >> >> Yohai
> >> >>
> >> >> *Dr. Yohai Hakak*
> >> >> Senior Lecturer In Social Work
> >> >>
> >> >> Admissions Tutor and Athena Swan SAT Lead
> >> >> *T* +44(0)1895 265844 | *E* [log in to unmask]
> >> >>
> >> >> *Brunel University London*
> >> >> Inst of Env., Health and Societies (Welfare, Health and Wellbeing
> >> theme)
> >> >> Department of Clinical
> >> >> Sciences
> >> >>
> >> >> Brunel University London, Uxbridge, UB8 3PH, United Kingdom
> >> >> *T* +44(0)1895 274000
> >> >> *www.brunel.ac.uk* <http://www.brunel.ac.uk/>
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.brunel.ac.uk/people/yohai-hakak
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:18 AM Nikolai Ssorin-Chaikov <
> >> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > a very interesting study that touches on the issue of the
> >> >> > history of English manners etc, is actually not in anthropology
> >> >> > but in the
> >> history
> >> >> of
> >> >> > science. I highly recommend this:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Steven Shapin. A Social History of Truth: Civility and Science
> >> >> > in Seventeenth-Century England. Chicago: University of Chicago
> >> >> > Press,
> >> 1995.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 at 12:11, Yohai Hakak
> >> >> > > <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> Hello all,
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> I am looking for recommendations on literature exploring key
> >> British
> >> >> > >> cultural characteristics in daily interactions such as:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> - the British understatement
> >> >> > >> - the tendency to avoid direct talk or the difficulty in
> >> >> > >> calling a
> >> >> > spade 'a
> >> >> > >> spade'
> >> >> > >> - queuing
> >> >> > >> - British manners, for example apologising and saying thank
> >> >> > >> you
> >> >> > >> - minimal bodily contact
> >> >> > >> - anything else you think is uniquely British and might
> >> >> > >> manifest
> >> >> itself
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > >> every day interactions
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Thanks a lot in advance,
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Yohai
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Dr. Yohai Hakak
> >> >> > >> Senior Lecturer In Social Work
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Admissions Tutor and Athena Swan SAT Lead
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> T +44(0)1895 265844 |
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> E: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Inst of Env., Health and Societies Department of Clinical
> >> >> > >> Sciences Brunel University London, Uxbridge, UB8 3PH, United
> >> >> > >> Kingdom
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> http://www.brunel.ac.uk/people/yohai-hakak
> >> >> > >>
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> * Anthropology-Matters Mailing List
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> * Anthropology-Matters Mailing List
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* Anthropology-Matters Mailing List
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