JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS Archives

RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS  November 2017

RADSTATS November 2017

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Republican House Members Think a $450K Salary is Middle Class

From:

Andrei Morgan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Andrei Morgan <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:33:14 +0000

Content-Type:

multipart/signed

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (214 lines) , signature.asc (214 lines)

You miss my point: professors (and other academics) are not
middle-class. Maybe they once were - a few hundred years ago - but not
today. Today, they are very decidedly working class.

Indeed, perhaps people have heard of the book, The Ragged Trousered
Philanthropists. You could substitute academics for the
painter-decorators therein and you've almost got the situation we're in
today; a sitation where the majority of workers (academics or whoever)
think they're better than the others, of a better class, apart from
those below them. But actually, we're all in the shit together - the
"middle classes" are those who are a little bit below the upper
(controlling) classes...

Further food for thought: I'd say it is the middle and upper classes who
are taking advantage of tax-havens such as recently described by the
Paradise Papers.

A slightly different take on what I am trying to say: we live in a
globalised world, where there is a ruling class (the Trumps, Putins,
Royal Family etc), the middle class (those who pretend they have power
such as the majority of politicians, and those who we call "rich"
players in society like sports stars, actresses and actors, and other
celebrities), and then everyone else (academics, doctors, teachers,
builders, office workers, etc). And yes, "everyone else" in this example
are the working classes.

This is reality in the 21st century. I think it's high time people
removed the blinkers from their eyes.

Best wishes,

     -- Andrei



On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 04:32:37PM +0000, Nigel Waters wrote:
> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:32:37 +0000
> From: Nigel Waters <[log in to unmask]>
> To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>, Andrei Morgan
>  <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Republican House Members Think a $450K Salary is Middle Class
> 
> When I was hired at George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, USA, in 2007, almost no faculty member was making $450k -- at that point probably not even administrators (Deans etc.) or even the Basketball Coach (highest paid person on campus). If you were hired to teach a one off, one semester course you got paid about $3,000. To be middle class in that category you would have to teach 150 courses a year. LOL
> 
> The salary of one full professor in our Department (Geography and Geoinformation Science in a College of Science) was in the $80,000s. He had had a very productive career and was in his 60s.
> 
> The situation was not much better when I left in 2014. In fact some things were exactly the same.
> 
> $450k in the US is not middle class. End of story.
> 
> Nigel
> 
> Nigel Waters, PhD
> Professor Emeritus of Geography, University of Calgary
> Adjunct Professor, Civil Engineering, University of Calgary
> Affilaite Faculty Member, College of Science, George Mason University
> Phone: 403-620-0146          e-Mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Skype contact: nigel.waters3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: email list for Radical Statistics <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Andrei Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 8:50:24 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Republican House Members Think a $450K Salary is Middle Class
> 
> I'd agree that people who earn $450k might be middle-class - I think
> that most of us nowadays are actually working class, we just like to
> delude ourselves into thinking otherwise.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>      -- Andrei
> 
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 05:57:46AM -0800, Sean Arseo wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 05:57:46 -0800
> > From: Sean Arseo <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Republican House Members Think a $450K Salary is Middle Class
> >
> > Speaking as an American receiving his sociological training at an American
> > university, I will reiterate what others have already pointed to, that
> > "middle class" has so many varied connotations and delineations within the
> > contemporary population that a vast majority of the population identify as
> > "middle class". It would seem that identifying $450K as "middle class"
> > actually undercuts the typical Republican argument ("we are all middle
> > class") and that it's pretty poor politics from a purely cynical and
> > analytical perspective. More than anything, though, it is meant to sow
> > disinformation and hem together cross-class collaboration to support their
> > tax plan (as the original article indicates); a way to say "we feel it too"
> > when they have little idea of what possibly actually living in this country
> > means with the real median level of income.
> >
> > In this way, I would reframe the argument that there's "no objective basis
> > of class" in EP Thompson's famous analysis of class production, that class
> > (and its "consciousness") must be actively constructed. There are still
> > objective conditions (e.g. unequal distribution of wealth; relations to and
> > ownership of production, like financial investment) but that doesn't mean
> > that recognition of shared way of making a living automatically translates
> > into shared acknowledgment of problems.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Harry Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Americans think unionised workers are middle class, too. So go figure.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2017-11-17 01:44, Moore, Robert wrote:
> > >
> > > Laugh, cry, get angry? The latter I suppose .....
> > > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48189.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > Professor Robert Moore
> > > School of Sociology and Social Policy
> > > Eleanor Rathbone Building
> > > The University of Liverpool
> > > L69 7ZA
> > >
> > > Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456
> > >
> > > ******************************************************
> > > Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
> > > message will go only to the sender of this message.
> > > If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
> > > 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
> > > to [log in to unmask]
> > > Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>.
> > > *******************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
> > > www.avast.com<http://www.avast.com>
> > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
> > > <#m_-2561136508121030094_m_1823495149678194412_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > > ****************************************************** Please note that
> > > if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of
> > > this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
> > > 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
> > > [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are
> > > the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the
> > > range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find
> > > out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read
> > > current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web
> > > site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>. *******************************************************
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sean Arseo
> > PhD Candidate, Sociology
> > University of California, Davis
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > ******************************************************
> > Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
> > message will go only to the sender of this message.
> > If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
> > 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
> > to [log in to unmask]
> > Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>.
> > *******************************************************
> 
> --
> Andrei Morgan MRCPCH, MSc, PhD (Epidemiology / Neonatology)
> https://www.andreimorgan.net
> 
> Honorary Clinical Lecturer,
> Department of Neonatology,
> Institute for Women's Health,
> University College London
> 
> 
> ******************************************************
> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
> message will go only to the sender of this message.
> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
> 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
> to [log in to unmask]
> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk<http://www.radstats.org.uk>.
> *******************************************************

-- 
Andrei Morgan MRCPCH, MSc, PhD (Epidemiology / Neonatology)
https://www.andreimorgan.net

Honorary Clinical Lecturer,
Department of Neonatology,
Institute for Women's Health,
University College London


******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager