Hi, dave.
Well observed -- the original Statute would have been written in Anglo-Norman,
so what you have in my post is a later translation. Just when the translations
were made, I haven't yet been able to work out -- you'd think someone, somewhere
on the Web, would deal with this, but if they do, I haven't yet found any
pertinent reference. Probably sometime in the mid-sixteenth century, at a
guess, when the Statutes began to be issued in Collections. The eighteenth
century collections (by Ruffhead and Pickering) are the easiest ones to find,
and these usually print the original Anglo-Norman and the English version side
by side, with the English (presumably) derived from whichever version was first
produced.
I came on it when I was trying to track down exactly which Statute Thomas Harman
refers to (both vaguely and disingenuously -- it's a long and peculiar story) in
A Caveat for Common Cursitors in 1567. It's the 1383 Statute, for what that's
worth, in Harman's case.
"2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]" -- this is the standard way the bloody things
are referred to: the year of the reign of the relevant monarch. So the one I
posted was issued in the second year of the reign of Richard II -- i.e. 1379 --
and it's from the 5th chapter/section of the first Statute issued in that year.
Except, as I say, the original would have been written at that point in time in
Anglo-Norman.
Best,
Robin
>
> On 18 May 2017 at 04:00 David Bircumshaw
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> Rob
>
> Very impressive, Although it seems more proto-Elizabethan or late Tudor
> than Richard Two, who, although he might not have spoke English at all,
> was
> contemporary with Chaucer, Gower and even the Pearl poet. And their
> versions of English.
>
> I did though enjoy the hyperbolic expansion of the lingo-not-yet-by-jingo.
> Really liked it.
>
> dave
>
> On 17 May 2017 at 09:15, Patrick McManus <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > haha nice
> >
> > Dunning-Kruger McManus
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17/05/2017 02:47, Doug Barbour wrote:
> >
> >> Oh okay, he was right at least on this: "[Trump] is thus the all-time
> >> record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in which the
> >> incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own
> >> incompetence.”
> >>
> >> But with a compliant Congress, he may still get away with being so…
> >>
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>> On May 16, 2017, at 7:20 PM, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Brooks may be a conservative ratbag, Doug but this article seemed well
> >>> observed to me:
> >>>
> >>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-classified-data.html
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 11:10 am, Doug Barbour <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It was right well found, Robin.
> >>>>
> >>>> A lengthy look back, & then at where we are ow (I think there are a
> >>>> few
> >>>> more local PMs you might include…?).
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill: I wouldnt rally trust David Brooks as far as I could heave him,
> >>>> but…
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 16, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes, I kind of presumed as much, Robin about the majority of it. I
> >>>>>
> >>>> thought
> >>>>
> >>>>> you had fiddled a bit to make the opening couplet. Amazing. Love
> >>>>> 'him
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> whom the word was moved'. Words move so oddly in the current term
> >>>>> limited
> >>>>> elected monarch. David Brooks on New York Times points out the
> >>>>>
> >>>> difficulties
> >>>>
> >>>>> 'trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six
> >>>>> fireflies
> >>>>> beeping randomly in a jar'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill
> >>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 10:04 am, Robin Hamilton <
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not my words, Bill, but an actual Act of Parliament passed in the
> >>>>>> second
> >>>>>> year of
> >>>>>> the reign of Richard II.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Didn't turn out real well for him either, did it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Came on it accidentally, and was quite disconcerted at how apposite
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>> certain things being uttered by a current term-limited elected
> >>>>>> monarch.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Next down the line: the Divine Right of Presidents -- "I was
> >>>>>> elected
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> by
> >>>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> people, and the people are the Voice of God, so anyone who objects
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> what
> >>>>
> >>>>> I do
> >>>>>> is committing blasphemy, and will be dealt with accordingly."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Robin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 17 May 2017 at 00:28 Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Impressive accretion of moving words here, Robin.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bill
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 6:20 am, Robin Hamilton <
> >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Item, of Devisors of false News and of horrible and false Lyes
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> of Prelates, Dukes, Earls, Barons, and other Nobles, and great
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Men of the Realm, and also of the Chancellor, Treasurer,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Clerk of the Privy Seal, Steward of the King’s House, Justices
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> of the one Bench or of the other, and of other great Officers of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the Realm, of things which by the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and Officers aforesaid were never spoken, done, nor thought, in
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> great Slander of the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles and Officers,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> whereby Debates and Discords might arise between the said
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Lords, or between the Lords and the Commons (which God
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> forbid), and whereof great Peril and Mischief might come to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> all the Realm, and quick Subversion and Destruction of the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> said Realm if due remedy be not provided ; it is straitly de-
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> fended upon grievous pain for to eschew the said Damages and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Perils, that from henceforth none be so hardy to devise, speak,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> or to tell, any false News, Lyes, or other such false things, of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Prelates, Lords, and of other aforesaid, whereof Discord or any
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Slander might arise within the same Realm, and he that doth
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the same shall incur and have the pain another time ordained
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> thereof by the Statute of Westminster the first, which will, that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> he be taken and imprisoned till he have found him of whom the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> word was moved.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
> >>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> >>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Latest books:
> >>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> >>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> >>>> Recording Dates
> >>>> (Rubicon Press)
> >>>>
> >>>> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think
> >>>> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and
> >>>> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thomas De Quincey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Douglas Barbour
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> >> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> >>
> >> Latest books:
> >> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> >> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> >> Recording Dates
> >> (Rubicon Press)
> >>
> >> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think
> >> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and
> >> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
> >> Thomas De Quincey
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> David Joseph Bircumshaw
>
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