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Hi, dave. Well observed -- the original Statute would have been written in Anglo-Norman, so what you have in my post is a later translation. Just when the translations were made, I haven't yet been able to work out -- you'd think someone, somewhere on the Web, would deal with this, but if they do, I haven't yet found any pertinent reference. Probably sometime in the mid-sixteenth century, at a guess, when the Statutes began to be issued in Collections. The eighteenth century collections (by Ruffhead and Pickering) are the easiest ones to find, and these usually print the original Anglo-Norman and the English version side by side, with the English (presumably) derived from whichever version was first produced. I came on it when I was trying to track down exactly which Statute Thomas Harman refers to (both vaguely and disingenuously -- it's a long and peculiar story) in A Caveat for Common Cursitors in 1567. It's the 1383 Statute, for what that's worth, in Harman's case. "2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]" -- this is the standard way the bloody things are referred to: the year of the reign of the relevant monarch. So the one I posted was issued in the second year of the reign of Richard II -- i.e. 1379 -- and it's from the 5th chapter/section of the first Statute issued in that year. Except, as I say, the original would have been written at that point in time in Anglo-Norman. Best, Robin > > On 18 May 2017 at 04:00 David Bircumshaw > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Rob > > Very impressive, Although it seems more proto-Elizabethan or late Tudor > than Richard Two, who, although he might not have spoke English at all, > was > contemporary with Chaucer, Gower and even the Pearl poet. And their > versions of English. > > I did though enjoy the hyperbolic expansion of the lingo-not-yet-by-jingo. > Really liked it. > > dave > > On 17 May 2017 at 09:15, Patrick McManus <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > haha nice > > > > Dunning-Kruger McManus > > > > > > > > On 17/05/2017 02:47, Doug Barbour wrote: > > > >> Oh okay, he was right at least on this: "[Trump] is thus the all-time > >> record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in which the > >> incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own > >> incompetence.” > >> > >> But with a compliant Congress, he may still get away with being so… > >> > >> > >> Doug > >> > >>> On May 16, 2017, at 7:20 PM, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Brooks may be a conservative ratbag, Doug but this article seemed well > >>> observed to me: > >>> > >>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-classified-data.html > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 11:10 am, Doug Barbour <[log in to unmask]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> It was right well found, Robin. > >>>> > >>>> A lengthy look back, & then at where we are ow (I think there are a > >>>> few > >>>> more local PMs you might include…?). > >>>> > >>>> Bill: I wouldnt rally trust David Brooks as far as I could heave him, > >>>> but… > >>>> > >>>> Doug > >>>> > >>>>> On May 16, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Yes, I kind of presumed as much, Robin about the majority of it. I > >>>>> > >>>> thought > >>>> > >>>>> you had fiddled a bit to make the opening couplet. Amazing. Love > >>>>> 'him > >>>>> of > >>>>> whom the word was moved'. Words move so oddly in the current term > >>>>> limited > >>>>> elected monarch. David Brooks on New York Times points out the > >>>>> > >>>> difficulties > >>>> > >>>>> 'trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six > >>>>> fireflies > >>>>> beeping randomly in a jar'. > >>>>> > >>>>> Bill > >>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 10:04 am, Robin Hamilton < > >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Not my words, Bill, but an actual Act of Parliament passed in the > >>>>>> second > >>>>>> year of > >>>>>> the reign of Richard II. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Didn't turn out real well for him either, did it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Came on it accidentally, and was quite disconcerted at how apposite > >>>>>> it > >>>>>> > >>>>> is > >>>> > >>>>> to > >>>>>> certain things being uttered by a current term-limited elected > >>>>>> monarch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Next down the line: the Divine Right of Presidents -- "I was > >>>>>> elected > >>>>>> > >>>>> by > >>>> > >>>>> the > >>>>>> people, and the people are the Voice of God, so anyone who objects > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> > >>>>> what > >>>> > >>>>> I do > >>>>>> is committing blasphemy, and will be dealt with accordingly." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Robin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 17 May 2017 at 00:28 Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Impressive accretion of moving words here, Robin. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Bill > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 6:20 am, Robin Hamilton < > >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Item, of Devisors of false News and of horrible and false Lyes > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> of Prelates, Dukes, Earls, Barons, and other Nobles, and great > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Men of the Realm, and also of the Chancellor, Treasurer, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Clerk of the Privy Seal, Steward of the King’s House, Justices > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> of the one Bench or of the other, and of other great Officers of > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> the Realm, of things which by the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> and Officers aforesaid were never spoken, done, nor thought, in > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> great Slander of the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles and Officers, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> whereby Debates and Discords might arise between the said > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Lords, or between the Lords and the Commons (which God > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> forbid), and whereof great Peril and Mischief might come to > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> all the Realm, and quick Subversion and Destruction of the > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> said Realm if due remedy be not provided ; it is straitly de- > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> fended upon grievous pain for to eschew the said Damages and > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Perils, that from henceforth none be so hardy to devise, speak, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> or to tell, any false News, Lyes, or other such false things, of > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Prelates, Lords, and of other aforesaid, whereof Discord or any > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Slander might arise within the same Realm, and he that doth > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> the same shall incur and have the pain another time ordained > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> thereof by the Statute of Westminster the first, which will, that > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> he be taken and imprisoned till he have found him of whom the > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> word was moved. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour > >>>> [log in to unmask] > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/ > >>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/ > >>>> > >>>> Latest books: > >>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy) > >>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962 > >>>> Recording Dates > >>>> (Rubicon Press) > >>>> > >>>> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think > >>>> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and > >>>> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. > >>>> > >>>> Thomas De Quincey > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Douglas Barbour > >> [log in to unmask] > >> > >> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/ > >> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/ > >> > >> Latest books: > >> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy) > >> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962 > >> Recording Dates > >> (Rubicon Press) > >> > >> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think > >> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and > >> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination. > >> Thomas De Quincey > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > David Joseph Bircumshaw >