Dear Lily,
I mention this issue before in a previous post to this list -
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1601&L=PHD-DESIGN&P=R38346&1=PHD-DESIGN&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4
Semiotics is a model and a tool, it is best used for small test
environments and clear and contained contexts, otherwise its
generalization and abstractedness can serve only to confuse and indulge
researchers with endless speculative conversation. Further, I believe
that even when applied to small groups of community and specific niche
cultures, semiotics as a science does not perform better than anthropology.
Back to your comment - I believe Evidence is all around us today as
every field of research builds in some way on cognitive science and
methods. Signs and signifiers, but also signified, do not exist anywhere
out side the mind. Physical objects and their formal properties do, but
their significance is dependent only on the user/observer's personal
experience and memory of interacting with similar objects. And of course
if there is no user to perceive them, these objects would not enter
Saussure's signifier-signified relationship which stands in the core of
semiotics.
Moving on form your anecdotal question on bio-semiotics to conceptions
such as Social Memory and History, I believe these are used contextually
by users to understand what things mean - these offer /ways of seeing
things as/, much like Klaus's flip figures example (2006, p. 52).
Finally, If you wanted a more nuanced answer with specific suggestions
to literature. Then I guess a more nuanced question - with framing of
bio-semiotics and suggestions to lit. - would have been preferred in the
first place.
Otherwise, based on my social memory and my personal experience of
reading posts on this list, your question is understood (from its code,
structure, selection and combination of words) as belonging to anecdotal
casual conversation.
Suggested references (and this is just the tip of the iceberg, compared
to how much has been discovered on the cognitive perceptual mechanism
with which we link meaning from "mental dictionary" to perceived and
recognized structures in the radiant flow of sensory information):
- Correia, J., Formisano E., Valente G., Hausfeld l., Jansma B., & Bonte
M. (2014). Brain‐based Translation: fMRI
Decoding of Spoken Words in Bilinguals Reveals Language‐Independent
Semantic Representations in Anterior
Temporal Lobe. The Journal of Neuroscience , 34 (1):332‐8. doi:
10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1302‐13.2014.
- Goel, V. (1995). Sketches of Thought. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
- Goel, V. and Grafman, J. (2000). Role of the Rignt Preforntal Cortex
in Ill‐structured Planning. Cognitive
Neuropsychology , 17(5), 415‐436.
- Gibson, J. J. (1986). The Ecological Approach to Visual Perception.
New York, NY: Psychology Press.
- Henley M. K. (2015). Comparison of Shape, Space, and Time Judgments in
Expert Dancers and Novices Evidence that Production Enhances
Perception. Journal of Dance Medicine & Science,19 (3),: 103-9. doi:
10.12678/1089-313X.19.3.103
- Higuchi, S., Chaminade, T., Imamizu, H., and Kawato, M. (2009). Shared
neural correlates for language and tool use.
in Broca’s area. Neuroreport , 20(15), 1376‐81. doi:
10.1097/WNR.0b013e3283315570.
- Jakobson’s Functions of Language. (2015). Retrieved August 20, 2015,
from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakobson%27s_functions_of_language
Lee, K., Jiangang L., Jun L., Lu F., Ling L., & Jie T. (2014). Seeing
Jesus in Toast; Neural and Behavioral Correlates of
Face Pareidolia. Cortex, 53, 60‐77. doi: 10.1016/j.cortex.2014.01.013
Saussure, F. (1983). Course in General Linguistics. Transl. Harris, R.
London, England: Duckworth.
/and of course:/
- Krippendorff, K. (2006). The Semantic turn; A New Foundation for
Design. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press.
Best,
*Yoád David Luxembourg *
BA (DAE <http://www.designacademy.nl/>,2004), MA (MAHKU
<http://www.mahku.nl/>,2006)
Ph.D (University of Porto <http://www.up.pt/>, 2015)
Creative Direction at Elementum by Daniela Pais
<http://www.luxuryistohavesimplethings.com/>
LinkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/yoad-david-luxembourg/5b/95a/69a>
On 23-2-2016 05:20, Diaz-Kommonen Lily wrote:
> Dear Klaus,
>
> Social memory and history, that are quite relevant in our current situation of crisis, cannot be reduced to perception and interaction. A more nuanced answer with specific suggestions to literature rather than general (hence unverifiable) all encompassing statements would have been preferred.
>
> Yours truly,
>
> Lily
>
> ^----^
> o o
> ∞
> Professor, Dr. Lily Diaz-Kommonen
> Head of Research
> Department of Media/ Media Lab Helsinki
> Aalto University, School of Arts,
> Design and Architecture
> Miestentie 3, Otaniemi 05021, Espoo
> --------------------------------------------------
> <[log in to unmask]>
> <http://sysrep.aalto.fi>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 23.2.2016, at 0.14, Klaus Krippendorff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> dear lily,
>> i couldn't have given you a better answer to your question as yoad did.
>> klaus
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yoád David Luxembourg
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 2:05 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Semantics of design
>>
>> Dear Diaz,
>>
>> I believe bio-semiotics is the way in which semioticians are trying to stay relevant, despite the latest discoveries in cognitive science and perception which makes semiotics obsolete.
>>
>> These days many of the cognitive mechanism behind recognizing a signifier and connecting it with signified are being researched. They are mostly part of the perceptual system, which enables us humans to understand and conceptualize our reality and ecology, as well what things mean. The meaning of artifacts is learned through interaction and it is the interaction with artifacts which preserve what things may mean.
>>
>> Semiotics is becoming redundant in my opinion, the only valid part of it are the structures of communication it offers, and even that is linked these days with post-structuralism and performativity.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> *Yoád David Luxembourg *
>> BA (DAE <http://www.designacademy.nl/>,2004), MA (MAHKU
>> <http://www.mahku.nl/>,2006)
>> Ph.D (University of Porto <http://www.up.pt/>, 2015) Creative Direction at Elementum by Daniela Pais <http://www.luxuryistohavesimplethings.com/>
>> LinkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/yoad-david-luxembourg/5b/95a/69a>
>> On 22-2-2016 17:13, Diaz-Kommonen Lily wrote:
>>> Dear Klaus,
>>>
>>> What about this idea of Biosemiotics? How would you relate it (if in any way) to Semantics?
>>>
>>> BR. Lily
>>>
>>> ^----^
>>> o o
>>> ∞
>>> Professor, Dr. Lily Diaz-Kommonen
>>> Head of Research
>>> Department of Media/ Media Lab Helsinki
>>> Aalto University, School of Arts,
>>> Design and Architecture
>>> Miestentie 3, Otaniemi 05021, Espoo
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> <http://sysrep.aalto.fi>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 22.2.2016, at 18.01, Klaus Krippendorff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi jude,
>>>>
>>>> you find the reason for distinguishing the semantic turn in design from semiotics in chapter eight.
>>>>
>>>> my departure from semiotics can be found in wittgenstein's equation of meanings with use, arising in language games, human interactions, now including guiding human interfaces with artifacts.
>>>>
>>>> semi-otics fundamentally advocates a two world conception, the world of signs and the world of referents. i realize of course that some semioticians acknowledge signs of signs and whole hierarchies of representation -- see bertrand russell's theory of logical types. although some talk of semiosis as the process of making something into signs, semiotics has little space for the kind of interactivity and processes that contemporary design has to deal with. nor does it easily deal with conflicting discourses enacting different conceptions and the possibility of polysemy, that something can be interpreted freely without a priori meanings.
>>>>
>>>> klaus
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CHUA Soo Meng Jude (GPL, PLS)
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 12:12 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Semantics of design
>>>>
>>>> We've been reading Klaus' The Semantic Turn, which is really delightful to read.
>>>> I am very sympathetic to its central ideas.
>>>> My favorite line is "Deinitions focus attention on what matters" (p3)
>>>>
>>>> I remember someone distinguishing the "Semantic" account of design from the "semiotic" one, but have not been able to locate that post. Would anyone be able to explain the difference again?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>> Jude
>>>>
>>>> National Institute of Education (Singapore) http://www.nie.edu.sg
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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