Dear Jeffrey, All,
This just keeps getting interesting, so I decided to join in with the
intellectuals camp toady :)
I wonder how many of these authors that you mention are by vocational
definition /semioticians/?
In a similar manner to yours, it's possible to aligned them to the
development of structuralism.
(By the way, why did you leave Roman Jakobson out of your list?)
I'd like to suggest that these authors all used semiotics as a model, or
semiotic models. However, once they understood the limitation of the
model(s) used in helping them understand how /w//e/ associate meaning to
things, they revised it and constructed new versions of the semiotic
model; versions that fit certain psychological, social cultural roles
and implications, but not all of them.
These versions of the semiotic models are their greatest contribution to
semiotics as a science.
For designers and researchers of design who are involved in specif
issues rather the potentially infinite ways in which sign system
operate, I believe structural related models of communication are of
more use and less confusing to use. Even universal grammar and
linguistics ( the science of how language work) can offer more guidance
and applied theoretical foot hold to designers than semiotics. We simply
know a lot about language (quantitatively!), and in recent years it is
more and more evident that manipulating tools (design) is cognitively
linked to manipulating sounds (language).
Linguistics, by the way, is the oldest science in the the existence of
mankind. The first books on human language date back hundreds if not
thousands of years and long before we had cognitive science (and FMRI
technology) people investigated aphasia and other language disorders.
Compared to linguistics design and semiotics are like spring chickens :)
I have to stop the intellectual me now because I really want to have
those 2 question above answered.
Best,
*Yoád David Luxembourg *
BA (DAE <http://www.designacademy.nl/>,2004), MA (MAHKU
<http://www.mahku.nl/>,2006)
Ph.D (University of Porto <http://www.up.pt/>, 2015)
Creative Direction at Elementum by Daniela Pais
<http://www.luxuryistohavesimplethings.com/>
LinkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/yoad-david-luxembourg/5b/95a/69a>
On 24-2-2016 17:18, Bardzell, Jeffrey S wrote:
>
> Dear Klaus and others,
>
> I wrote a lengthy post yesterday entitled Semiotics intended to counter indefensible claims such as this one:
>
>> Semiotics reduces meanings to simple relations between signs
>> and what they signify, void of psychological, social, and cultural
>> roles and implications.
> And I write this as someone who also prefers late Wittgenstein, Austin, Cavell, Rorty to a semiotic conception.
>
> Even so, there is no need to misrepresent and dismiss massive intellectual traditions in order to advocate for the one you believe in.
>
>> void of psychological
> Please see Lacan, Kristeva, and Metz as major semiotic thinkers who engage profoundly in the psychological aspects of signification, who have developed sophisticated and influential theories of the subject.
>
>> void of social
> Please see the entire corpus of Michel Foucault
>
>> void of cultural roles and implications
> Please see Roland Barthes, Umberto Eco, Dick Hebdige, Lev Manovich, Malcolm Barnard and (literally) a thousand others.
>
> Again, I do not suggest that these authors are invulnerable to criticism, and I do not write to champion them.
>
> But ludicrous caricatures should not be part of a scholarly response to a serious question posed by a member of this list.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeffrey
>
>
> --
> Jeffrey Bardzell, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Informatics
> Human-Computer Interaction/Design
> Affiliated Faculty of the Kinsey Institute for Sex, Gender, and Reproduction
> Indiana University School of Informatics and Computing
>
>
>
>
>
>
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