Hello Luiza,
I am quite impressed that you managed to deduce a sexist tone in my reply
to Mariam, I hadn’t even considered Mariam’s gender until you brought it
up; but maybe that’s because I tend to judge people’s arguments according
to their merits instead of the particular genitalia the arguer possesses.
You may say I’m a dreamer, but I often dream of a world where people will
not be judged by their gender, or the colour of their skin, but by the
content of their character (wow, It’s not everyday that I manage to jumble
Lennon and Marthin Luther Kind into the same sentence).
It’s my turn to play Sherlock Holmes and deduce a tone: you have used
“under-developed” and “developed” in somewhat sarcastic double-quotes. This
might come as a shock for you but there are some countries out there that
are under-developed, believe me, I know what I’m talking about here since
my own country ends up (inevitably) at the bottom of most of the EU
indicators (exceptions being the alcohol consumption and highway Km ratio
[which seems like a deadly combination if you ask me...]).
*Why does this term make you so uncomfortable? Why are you assuming that
this is the context of the workshop? Even in “western democratic countries”
there are people from that “other” part of the world; I am one of those
people, and I’d say that a conversation like the one Mariam is proposing
here is absolutely necessary. Having the “wrong” passport can make your
life quite difficult.*
I assumed this was the context of the workshop because the workshop page
was part of the University of Georgia. (I was going to make a joke
comparing Georgia in the balkans to Georgia in the Southwest USA, but I
guess I’m in enough trouble as it is...)
It makes me uncomfortable for the reasons I pointed in my first post, I
might add that many an authoritarian state has been established based on
similar rhetoric that made extensive use of vague concepts such as “social
justice”, you see, it all depends on who is enforcing said “justice”.
That’s why I’m so fond of democratic states with their imperfect systems.
*Striving for a just society does not make it just by default. Moreover,
I’d say that, for those who fall outside of the boundaries of privilege
(examples of privilege: being male and/or white and/or european), I don’t
see much of an effort being made for actually create a just society in the
first place. Society is just for those who are already included in it. But
let’s continue *
You think being male is an example of privilege? Are you suggesting I’m
more privileged than, let’s say, Isabel dos Santos? The Angolan (both
female and black) despot that is one of the richest person on Earth? If you
want to talk about privilege I suggest the categories of “economic class”
or “political power” are far more useful than gender or race. But let’s
continue.
*I’m pretty sure that to anyone who’s ever lived outside of the boundaries
of privilege - women, non-white folks, people from formerly (or currently)
colonised countries, trans or queer folks - the definition of “social
justice” is abundantly clear. *
Well, if it’s so clear than how difficult is it to present a definition? I
was genuinely curious about the definition and that’s why I asked in the
original post.
*I think João’s confusion about the exact meaning of this term is an
excellent example of why we - those who actually feel the need to discuss
“social justice” - have to speak out about these things. We need to educate
those who, due to their privileges, are unable to see how certain social
mechanisms are harmful to a significant (though often silenced) part of the
population. *
Luiza, in a democratic free society people with different opinions debate
and weight each other’s arguments in order to reach new (or not)
conclusions. We don’t “educate” each other, unless you’re talking about
adults and children. You seem to suggest that privilege equals ignorance,
I’m still unsure about what you mean with privilege but I would say
stupidity, laziness and ideological fanaticism lead to ignorance. I know a
couple of rich people (like I said before, perhaps the most useful category
of privilege we can use in our society) that are quite empathetic and
agreeable persons; accordingly, I also know poor people that are colossal
cretins. And they come in all colours as well.
*You also ask why is this injustice not being handled by current laws, so
let me explain that: we all - including those of you hailing from the
“developed" part of the world(though I’d rather call it the “colonizing”
part of the world) - live in societies that are biased towards certain
values, such as patriarchy or whiteness.*
Hold it right there, Luiza. Are you under the delusion that I live in Saudi
Arabia? Or Iran? If not, can you explain in what way is Europe a
patriarchy?
*Those values tend to have a stronger pull than laws - just take a look at
how many law enforcement officers have murdered young african-american men
and women in the past two years in the US, and been considered not guilty
<http://blacklivesmatter.com/ <http://blacklivesmatter.com/>> *
This is a real problem indeed. I don’t know enough about it to have an
educated opinion on the matter, since it is extremely complex. However, I
don’t think you can blame it solely on the USA having a “biased towards
certain values, such as patriarchy or whiteness”, otherwise you would have
to bend over-backwards to explain how Obama is president.
*Or read a bit about how despite rising rates
<http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/femicide-rise-central-america-article-1.1552233
<http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/femicide-rise-central-america-article-1.1552233>>,
crimes against women are frequently
<http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21586575-laws-punish-domestic-violence-are-too-often-honoured-breach-everyday-aggression
<http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21586575-laws-punish-domestic-violence-are-too-often-honoured-breach-everyday-aggression>>
met with <http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/EndingImpunityLAC.aspx
<http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/EndingImpunityLAC.aspx>> impunity
*
This is simply not true. A swift google search revealed that women
systematically get lighter sentences for the same crime than men.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
If anything, I just discovered men are in need of some “social justice”
right there.
*<https://rainn.org/news-room/news/reporting-and-prosecution-of-rape-cases
<https://rainn.org/news-room/news/reporting-and-prosecution-of-rape-cases>>,
and how these figures become even worse if you take into consideration the
victim’s race
<http://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/the_gun_crisis_we_arent_talking_about_black_women_are_under_attack_and_america_doesnt_care/
<http://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/the_gun_crisis_we_arent_talking_about_black_women_are_under_attack_and_america_doesnt_care/>>
or
<http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/08/lgbt-el-salvador-beatings-intolerance-death-150805075132892.html
<http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/08/lgbt-el-salvador-beatings-intolerance-death-150805075132892.html>>
gender
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/ohio-and-the-epidemic-of-_b_6720892.html
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/ohio-and-the-epidemic-of-_b_6720892.html>>
identity
<http://www.ucu.org.uk/media/pdf/r/6/transphobic_hate_crime_in_eu.pdf
<http://www.ucu.org.uk/media/pdf/r/6/transphobic_hate_crime_in_eu.pdf>>. *
*(this is why, by the way, the ruling for Daniel Holzclaw’s case
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daniel-holtzclaw-and-the-reality-of-police-brutality-against-black-women_566b0b4ee4b080eddf580671
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daniel-holtzclaw-and-the-reality-of-police-brutality-against-black-women_566b0b4ee4b080eddf580671>>
is so utterly extraordinary, while it should be the norm).*
I’m not going to google search articles for every single one of your
examples. Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence, and you
have a long way to go before you can demonstrate that Europe or the US are
a (white) patriarchy.
*If you’ve paid attention to what I’ve written before, you’ll realize at
this point that “oppressive structures” is not a vague and slightly scary
term; if you actually care enough to think about it, it’s not hard to
understand the point. Mariam mentions feminist activist Grace Lee Boggs and
clarifies that the workshop aims to discuss things like decolonisation and
intersectionality. For anyone who has ever taken even the slightest note of
the world around them this cannot possibly be such a mystery. And in any
case, there’s Google, Jstor and a number of other things on the internet to
help those who are more empathy-impaired.*
I have to give it to you, “empathy-impaired” really made me chuckle and it
was a funny way to insult me. Well done, can I use it myself?
Anyway, regarding decolonisation, I thought that was already all done by
now? Are there still many colonies to decolonise?
I’ve read some interesting feminist authors, such as Christina Hoff Sommers
and Germaine Greer for example, but also other profoundly disturbing
individuals like Gloria Steinem or V. Solanas; being left leaning, every
now and then I also make the mistake of reading the opinion pieces in The
Guardian and immediately feel this urge to rush into my bedroom and burn
all of my wife’s bras, fortunately it doesn’t last long. And yet, I’m still
not sure what you or Mariam mean with “oppressive structures.”
*Finally, I think reading this article
<http://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/
<http://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/>>
could be a good start for a discussion about how this whole “let me just
play devil’s advocate for a moment here” attitude is directly harming
researchers who are dealing with these kinds of issues - not merely for the
intellectual pleasure it brings, but because we actually need to do it in
order to survive in the world. Though it is important that we educate the
academic community about these problems, we simply cannot be expected to do
the entire work by ourselves. We cannot be held responsible for other
people’s ignorance. So I suggest that João, along with many others whom
I’ve witnessed engage in similar attitudes here in this list, inform
themselves about the struggles of others. It might just make you not only a
better researcher, but a better person to work with, and a better human
being. *
As it happens I happen to be a great human being; I recycle (almost
always), I pet dogs, I hold doors (for women AND men), I’m always careful
to be especially kind with call-centre operators (even when they’re trying
to sell me an upgrade for a service I don’t want) because I think it most
be a very frustrating and low paid job, I call my mother often on the phone
(and occasionally even listen to what she has to say,) I’m polite and
patient with waitresses (wait, is this a new form of sexism? One cannot be
too careful these days) even when they make a mistake (do women make
mistakes?), I once rescued a small boy who had drifted to open sea (that
alone should put me at least in the “almost acceptable human-being”
category, even though I’m a dude), and I cried when Simba’s father fell to
his tragic death (damn you Scar!) which makes me somewhat sensitive.
I'll go make dinner now (because I'm a great husband) and work on my
empathy.
In the words of Bertie Wooster,
Toodle-oo
Dear Layal,
Digital virus spread notwithstanding, in what way can an email
communication be unsafe?
The wider role of design in society is an always opportune, interesting and
endless topic for discussion. This list has many people with substantial
experience who can bring many different perspectives to it... I'm still
unsure about what is meant with "social justice" but I would enjoy watching
these ideas unfold.
‘best,
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