medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Yes I think it must have been. Thank you Gordon.  Still worth looking at those volumes and Hamilton Thompson's edition of Lincoln Visitations 1420-36 I should think.

Rosemary 

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> On 1 Jul 2015, at 21:32, Gordon Plumb <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> 
> Rosemary
> 
> Is this what you were thinking of?
> 
>         Dominus Will'mus Muston, senex vicarius domini Roberti Iwardeby, exhibit etc., examinatus dicit, quod Johannes Bellrynger conseruat canem in ecclesia in cubili justa altare pele, mingentum et deturpantem ecclesiam. Vol. 3, p.407.
> 
> Gordon Plumb
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosemary Hayes And Andrew Milligan <[log in to unmask]>
> To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 20:09
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Behaviour in the Nave
> 
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture  
> I'm away from home at the moment but, particularly as Jason mentioned being interested in cathedrals, think you need to look at the records of the Lincoln Dean and chapter during the first half of the fifteenth century.  A lot of these, including visitation records, are published in the three volume Lincoln Cathedral Statutes, ed Bradshaw and Wordsworth and the Laudum of William Alnwick, ed Wordworth.  I'm sorry I don't have the precise references to hand.  I'm pretty sure there's something about someone keeping a smelly dog in the nave. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rosemary Hayes 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad 
> 
> 
> On 1 Jul 2015, at 19:38, Madeleine Gray <  [log in to unmask]> wrote:  
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> 
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture   
> I have a feeling Robert Lutton may have written something about this as well. He was one of the academic observers for the Experience of Worship project and did make the point that he felt there should have been more going on in the congregation. Unfortunately, for the service he watched, our style was a bit cramped. I had planned some rather disruptive activities with one of my students but an old friend of mine, a radio producer, had arranged to record the service and try to get it broadcast as a music programme. So we felt we couldn't be too noisy because it would spoil her recording. Of course, the programme never got broadcast. Had we but known ... 
> 
> (The whole project is very much in my mind at the moment because I'm doing a paper on the St Teilo Project for the Representing the Tudors conference here at USW next week.)
> 
> Maddy
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>  
> 
> 
> ---
> Prof. Madeleine Gray
> University of South Wales
> http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk
> http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim
> 
> 'You say to yourself in your mid-60s, how much time am I going to have, do I want to slow down?' (Charlotte Rampling)
> 
> 
> On 01/07/2015 17:05, Gordon Plumb wrote:
> 
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> 
> Like here:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/22274117@N08/3244348292/in/album-72157622801758176
> 
> Gordon Plumb
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Shinners <[log in to unmask]>
> To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 15:48
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Behaviour in the Nave
> 
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture  
> 
> 
> Katherine L. French has lots of good things to say about activities inside the church in her various books on English parish life. See   
> 
>    The Good Women of the Parish: Gender and Religion after the Black Death (2008)   
> 
>    The People of the Parish: Community Life in a Late Medieval English Diocese (2012)   
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> More briefly, her chapters in     Medieval Christianity: A People's History of Christianity (ed. Daniel Bornstein) and     The Oxford Handbook of Medieval Christianity (ed. John Arnold) (It's newly published and very useful.)   
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> 
> 
> 
> John Myrc's mid-15th century     Instructions for Parish Priests (p. 9) offers this advice below for behaving in church. (This is my still rather rough modernization; I downloaded a pdf of the whole Instructions 3 years ago—it's an Early English Text Society edition (v. 31, 1898, ed. Peacock)—but now I can't find the link.)   
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> 
> 
> Wall paintings of women jangling in church are common enough (and Gordon Plumb can direct you to a stained glass version). The Menagier of Paris offers his teenaged wife a treatise on hawking in his 14th-c household manual for her. In it he recommends training a new bird to get used to crowds by taking it to church (compare this illumination from the Getty:     http://tinyurl.com/q8obtt2)   
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> 
> Yet you must teach them more:   
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> That when they come to church   
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> Bid them leave behind their empty words   
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> Idle speech and fancy games   
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> And put away all vanity.   
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> And say their Pater Noster and their Ave.   
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> No one in church should stand or   
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> Lean against a pillar or a wall   
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> But they shall kneel well on their knees   
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> Kneeling down on the floor   
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> And pray to God with a meek heart   
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> To give them grace and also mercy   
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> Allow them to make no noise   
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> But always to be praying   
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> And when the Gospel is read   
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> Teach them all to stand up   
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> And bless themselves as well as they can   
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> When the Gloria tibi begins   
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> And when the Gospel ends   
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> Teach them again to kneel down soon.   
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> And when they hear the bell ring   
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> For the holy Consecration   
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> Teach both young and old to kneel   
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> And hold up both their hands   
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> And then say   
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> Clear and softly without noise:   
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> "Jhesu, Lord, welcome thou be   
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> In the form of bread as I can see;   
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> Jhesu, by thy holy name   
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> Shield me today from sin and shame;   
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> Grant me both forgiveness and blessing   
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> Before I leave here   
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> And true contrition for my sin   
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> So that I shall never die in it;   
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> And as thou were born of a maiden   
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> Suffer me never to be forlorn/lost,   
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> But when I die   
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> Grant me bliss without end. Amen."   
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> Teach them this or some other prayer   
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> To say at the Consecration.   
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Jason Burg    <[log in to unmask]> wrote:   
> 
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture     
> Dear all,     
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking for information pertaining to the ways people behaved in the nave of churches (specially, cathedrals would be best).  Primary or secondary sources will do.         
> 
> 
> 
> Best,      
> 
> Jason     
> 
> ********************************************************************** 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --   
> 
> 
>    John Shinners     
>    Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies     
>    Saint Mary's College     
>    Notre Dame, Indiana 46556     
>    Phone:     574-284-4494     or     574-284-4534         
>    Fax: 284-4855     
>    www.saintmarys.edu/~hust         
> 
>    "Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (
> 
> 
> 
> **********************************************************************

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