Richard, run the enlarged photos up into Photoshop and then rotate them
180 degrees. That should make the optical illusion go away.
And yes, I agree about the vivianite -- its patterns are always
Mandelbrotian. Cheers -- Deb Bennett
> I think there is an optical illusion with the enlarged photos, where the
> marks look to me like upside down cups on the surface of the bone.
>
> In the image that includes three bones, the marks look like hollows.
>
> Am I correct in assuming that all the marks are hollows in the bone?
>
> I have seen vivianite on bones ranging from the late Pleistocene to recent
> mass graves. The crystals I saw were always jagged, not rounded.
>
> Richard Wright
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message ----------
>
> Hello all,
> maybe a mineral, instead of an insect?
> It seems to me, looking at the last three pictures, that there is a
> blue powdery substance between cupules. It reminds me on vivianite, a
> mineral that gains this kind of deep blue color by oxidation; it is
> found often related to organic matter, including fossil bones. I found
> it on fragmented bones in a Serbian cave, in a Pleistocene layer. The
> most famous vivianite occurrence is "Blue Babe", the carcass of a
> steppe bison found at Alaska, and nick-named after the blue coating of
> this mineral.
> best regards, Vesna
> 2015-04-22 15:09 GMT+02:00 Jean-Bernard Huchet :
> Dear Aurlie,
> Really interesting find. A student from my laboratory submitted me a
> long bone fragment from Brazil showing exactly the same kind of
> modification on surface.
> In any case, these "cupules" are not dermestid pupal chambers and do
> not result from subterranean termites action.
>
> ....but the problem still has not been resolved :(
>
> Good luck,
> Kindest regards,
> Jean-Bernard
>
> Dr Jean-Bernard Huchet, PhDUMR 7209, Archozoologie, Archobotanique
> Socits, pratiques et environnements Musum national d'Histoire
> naturelle CP 56, 55 rue Buffon 75005 Paris - France Tel: 33(01) 40 79
> 32 74 [log in to unmask] [2]
> Musum national d'Histoire naturelle, Institut de Systmatique,
> Evolution et Biodiversit ISYEB, UMR 7205 CNRS MNHN UPMC EPHE CP 50
> (Entomologie), 75231 Paris Cedex 05 - France
> UMR 5199 du CNRS, PACEA Anthropologie des populations passes et
> prsentes Universit de Bordeaux Bt. B 8, alle Geoffroy St Hilaire, CS
> 50023 33615 Pessac Cedex - France Tel: 33(05) 40 00 25 48
> [log in to unmask] [3]
>
> ========================================
>
> Message du : 22/04/2015 11:00
> De : "Aurelie Guidez "
> A : [log in to unmask] [5]
> Copie :
> Sujet : Re: [ZOOARCH] Strange little makrs
>
> Hi all,
>
> First, thank you for your ideas, to everyone who took the time to
> take a look at my mistery.
>
> I had already thought about insect pupation chambers but the
> regularity, number and size of my marks made me dismiss that idea.
> From what I saw in the various paper references you indicated, I think
> they are too small and too superficial, and so am still not convinced.
>
> As for a chemical corrosion explanation, I agree with you Richard. As
> I told Christian, I didn't go that way because of the regularity of
> the marks but would be more than ready to explore that lead if anyone
> could provide an example of such a phenomenon.
>
> Richard, I couldn't find the article you mentionned, but from the
> extract and the image you included, I must say I have the same
> objections as above. The marks on my bones are very rarely above 1mm
> in diameter, and when they are, it seems like the fusion of two too
> close pits. They are also never more than 1-1,5 mm deep. That will
> also answer your question. What you probably see on the bone in the
> right of the picture are some pits whit sharper edges. They create a
> shadow that make it look like it's deeper but it's not.
>
> I'm not giving up! I hope I'll fing a suitable explanation. If anyone
> has an other idea, please share, I'll consider any and every lead!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aurlie.
>
> --
> Aurlie Guidez
> Doctorante - PhD Student
> [log in to unmask] [6]
> [log in to unmask] [7]
> [8]
> UMR 7044 - Archimde
> Ostothque du Muse Zoologique de Strasbourg
> 29 boulevard de la Victoire
> F - 67000 Strasbourg
> http://archimedeunistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/ [9]
> Le 22/04/2015 05:24, Richard Wright a crit :
>
> Aurlie I have never seen anything like the marks you illustrate. They
> are a challenge. Christian suggests the possibility of chemical
> corrosion. My problem is that I can't see what corrosive agent could
> produce marks, in cortical bone, that were so consistent in shape and
> size, and separated from each other. So my bet is borings by some
> invertebrate organism. To that extent I agree with Adam's post
> suggesting dermestsid beetles. However your marks are virtually all
> roughly circular, and so do not mimic the elongated pupal chambers of
> dermestids. Interestingly, Hasiotis (Sedimentary Geology 167 (2004)
> 177-268) discusses borings on dinosaur bones that seem to closely
> resemble those you have. He describes them thus: START QUOTE (C) Small
> hemispherical borings on the surface of a femur of D4.18. Type
> 18--circular to elliptical borings in dinosaur bone, Fig. 13C-H
> Description: Predominantly circular to slightly elliptical in
> plan-view, the borings are preserved as molds and casts within the
> bone and are shallow hemispheres typically 0.01-4.0 mm deep. Some
> elliptical pits appear to be incomplete borings. The borings range
> from 0.5-1, 2.5-3, and 4-5.0 mm in diameter. Clusters of borings are
> random with no particular distribution between borings. Some skeletal
> elements contain both small and large borings, but one size always
> dominates the bone surface. Borings from different quarries have
> similar diameters, shapes, and distributions across bone surfaces.
> None of the dinosaur bones examined contain deep or fully penetrating
> holes or trails. Occurrence: Dinosaur bone borings were observed in
> quarries in the Brushy Basin Member in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.
> Tracemaker: The morphologies suggest that these borings were most
> likely produced by the larvae of carrion beetles (Coleoptera:
> Dermestidae) and are very similar to the traces of modern
> dermestids(Fig. 13G-H)." END QUOTE In case you can't get to Hasiotis's
> original article, there is an image of Fig. 13C at
> https://app.box.com/s/f1r7ece5menr1rucboe8kk50x7b7ez0v [10] A final
> question. Among the pits, are there any deeper borings that turn into
> tunnels that are perpendicular to the surface of the cortical bone? In
> the image with three separate bones, I wondered whether this was the
> case for some of the marks on the bone on the right. Please let us
> know if you solve this intriguing problem. Richard Wright
>
> --
> ***
> Prof.dr Vesna Dimitrijevi
> Laboratory for Bioarchaeology, Department of Archaeology Faculty of
> Philosophy, University of Belgrade ika Ljubina 18-20, 11000 Belgrade
> Serbia
>
> http://filozofskifakultetbeograd.academia.edu/VesnaDimitrijevic [11]
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vesna_Dimitrijevic/publications
> [12]
>
> http://bioarchlab.org [13]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [2] mailto:huchet@mnhnfr
> [3] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [4] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [5] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [6] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [7] mailto:[log in to unmask]
> [8] http://www.unistra.fr
> [9] http://archimede.unistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/
> [10] https://app.box.com/s/f1r7ece5menr1rucboe8kk50x7b7ez0v
> [11] http://filozofskifakultetbeograd.academia.edu/VesnaDimitrijevic
> [12]
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vesna_Dimitrijevic/publications
> [13] http://bioarchlab.org/
>
>
>
>
|