I think there is an optical illusion with the enlarged photos, where the marks look to me like upside down cups on the surface of the bone.
In the image that includes three bones, the marks look like hollows.
Am I correct in assuming that all the marks are hollows in the bone?
I have seen vivianite on bones ranging from the late Pleistocene to recent mass graves. The crystals I saw were always jagged, not rounded.
Richard Wright
-------- Original Message ----------
Hello all,
maybe a mineral, instead of an insect?
It seems to me, looking at the last three pictures, that there is a
blue powdery substance between cupules. It reminds me on vivianite, a
mineral that gains this kind of deep blue color by oxidation; it is
found often related to organic matter, including fossil bones. I found
it on fragmented bones in a Serbian cave, in a Pleistocene layer. The
most famous vivianite occurrence is "Blue Babe", the carcass of a
steppe bison found at Alaska, and nick-named after the blue coating of
this mineral.
best regards, Vesna
2015-04-22 15:09 GMT+02:00 Jean-Bernard Huchet :
Dear Aurlie,
Really interesting find. A student from my laboratory submitted me a
long bone fragment from Brazil showing exactly the same kind of
modification on surface.
In any case, these "cupules" are not dermestid pupal chambers and do
not result from subterranean termites action.
....but the problem still has not been resolved :(
Good luck,
Kindest regards,
Jean-Bernard
Dr Jean-Bernard Huchet, PhDUMR 7209, Archozoologie, Archobotanique
Socits, pratiques et environnements Musum national d'Histoire
naturelle CP 56, 55 rue Buffon 75005 Paris - France Tel: 33(01) 40 79
32 74 [log in to unmask] [2]
Musum national d'Histoire naturelle, Institut de Systmatique,
Evolution et Biodiversit ISYEB, UMR 7205 CNRS MNHN UPMC EPHE CP 50
(Entomologie), 75231 Paris Cedex 05 - France
UMR 5199 du CNRS, PACEA Anthropologie des populations passes et
prsentes Universit de Bordeaux Bt. B 8, alle Geoffroy St Hilaire, CS
50023 33615 Pessac Cedex - France Tel: 33(05) 40 00 25 48
[log in to unmask] [3]
========================================
Message du : 22/04/2015 11:00
De : "Aurelie Guidez "
A : [log in to unmask] [5]
Copie :
Sujet : Re: [ZOOARCH] Strange little makrs
Hi all,
First, thank you for your ideas, to everyone who took the time to
take a look at my mistery.
I had already thought about insect pupation chambers but the
regularity, number and size of my marks made me dismiss that idea.
From what I saw in the various paper references you indicated, I think
they are too small and too superficial, and so am still not convinced.
As for a chemical corrosion explanation, I agree with you Richard. As
I told Christian, I didn't go that way because of the regularity of
the marks but would be more than ready to explore that lead if anyone
could provide an example of such a phenomenon.
Richard, I couldn't find the article you mentionned, but from the
extract and the image you included, I must say I have the same
objections as above. The marks on my bones are very rarely above 1mm
in diameter, and when they are, it seems like the fusion of two too
close pits. They are also never more than 1-1,5 mm deep. That will
also answer your question. What you probably see on the bone in the
right of the picture are some pits whit sharper edges. They create a
shadow that make it look like it's deeper but it's not.
I'm not giving up! I hope I'll fing a suitable explanation. If anyone
has an other idea, please share, I'll consider any and every lead!
Cheers,
Aurlie.
--
Aurlie Guidez
Doctorante - PhD Student
[log in to unmask] [6]
[log in to unmask] [7]
[8]
UMR 7044 - Archimde
Ostothque du Muse Zoologique de Strasbourg
29 boulevard de la Victoire
F - 67000 Strasbourg
http://archimedeunistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/ [9]
Le 22/04/2015 05:24, Richard Wright a crit :
Aurlie I have never seen anything like the marks you illustrate. They
are a challenge. Christian suggests the possibility of chemical
corrosion. My problem is that I can't see what corrosive agent could
produce marks, in cortical bone, that were so consistent in shape and
size, and separated from each other. So my bet is borings by some
invertebrate organism. To that extent I agree with Adam's post
suggesting dermestsid beetles. However your marks are virtually all
roughly circular, and so do not mimic the elongated pupal chambers of
dermestids. Interestingly, Hasiotis (Sedimentary Geology 167 (2004)
177-268) discusses borings on dinosaur bones that seem to closely
resemble those you have. He describes them thus: START QUOTE (C) Small
hemispherical borings on the surface of a femur of D4.18. Type
18--circular to elliptical borings in dinosaur bone, Fig. 13C-H
Description: Predominantly circular to slightly elliptical in
plan-view, the borings are preserved as molds and casts within the
bone and are shallow hemispheres typically 0.01-4.0 mm deep. Some
elliptical pits appear to be incomplete borings. The borings range
from 0.5-1, 2.5-3, and 4-5.0 mm in diameter. Clusters of borings are
random with no particular distribution between borings. Some skeletal
elements contain both small and large borings, but one size always
dominates the bone surface. Borings from different quarries have
similar diameters, shapes, and distributions across bone surfaces.
None of the dinosaur bones examined contain deep or fully penetrating
holes or trails. Occurrence: Dinosaur bone borings were observed in
quarries in the Brushy Basin Member in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.
Tracemaker: The morphologies suggest that these borings were most
likely produced by the larvae of carrion beetles (Coleoptera:
Dermestidae) and are very similar to the traces of modern
dermestids(Fig. 13G-H)." END QUOTE In case you can't get to Hasiotis's
original article, there is an image of Fig. 13C at
https://app.box.com/s/f1r7ece5menr1rucboe8kk50x7b7ez0v [10] A final
question. Among the pits, are there any deeper borings that turn into
tunnels that are perpendicular to the surface of the cortical bone? In
the image with three separate bones, I wondered whether this was the
case for some of the marks on the bone on the right. Please let us
know if you solve this intriguing problem. Richard Wright
--
***
Prof.dr Vesna Dimitrijevi
Laboratory for Bioarchaeology, Department of Archaeology Faculty of
Philosophy, University of Belgrade ika Ljubina 18-20, 11000 Belgrade
Serbia
http://filozofskifakultetbeograd.academia.edu/VesnaDimitrijevic [11]
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vesna_Dimitrijevic/publications
[12]
http://bioarchlab.org [13]
Links:
------
[1] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[2] mailto:huchet@mnhnfr
[3] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[4] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[5] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[6] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[7] mailto:[log in to unmask]
[8] http://www.unistra.fr
[9] http://archimede.unistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/
[10] https://app.box.com/s/f1r7ece5menr1rucboe8kk50x7b7ez0v
[11] http://filozofskifakultetbeograd.academia.edu/VesnaDimitrijevic
[12]
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vesna_Dimitrijevic/publications
[13] http://bioarchlab.org/
|