medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
A torch would be logical, but then why the grill form? An Arrest
alabaster, for example, shows a fairly traditional lantern:
http://www.KornbluthPhoto.com/UMMABetrayal.html
Of course, the same question applies for the brazier: why give it a
grill form? If you Google images for braziers, you get (in addition to
lots of scantily clad women) things on stands.
GK
On 3/8/2015 4:01 PM, Madeleine Gray wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Could it be a torch? - in view of the fact that both Judas's betrayal and Peter's took place by torchlight
>
> Maddy
>
> Madeleine Gray PhD, FRHistS, FSA
> Professor of Ecclesiastical History/Athro Hanes Eglwysig
> School of Humanities and Social Sciences /Ysgol Ddyniaethau a Gwyddoniaethau Cymdeithasol
> University of South Wales/Prifysgol De Cymru
> Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
> Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
> http://www.southwales.ac.uk
> http://twitter.com/penrhyspilgrim
> http://twitter.com/HeritageUSW
> http://twitter.com/USWHistory
>
> 'Let the victors, when they come, When the forts of folly fall, Find thy body by the wall!'
>
> ________________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Genevra Kornbluth [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 7:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] ID for an Instrument of the Passion
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> I too was immediately reminded of the grill normally shown with Lawrence (more examples: http://www.kornbluthphoto.com/SaintLawrence.html ), and the red looks like fire, but that made little sense in context. I am used to seeing the brazier depicted as something that sits on the ground, as on the BM Passion Plaques (http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pe_mla/p/panel_from_an_ivory_casket_ch.aspx ). Now I think that braziers must have taken more forms than I knew.
> Many thanks!
> Genevra
>
> On 3/8/2015 3:19 PM, richard legault wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> Gordon's idea of a brazier is better than mine. This provides symmetry in depicting two betrayals of Jesus on either side of the cross. On the left there is Judas kissing Jesus accompanied by the image of pieces of silver and on the right, Peter's denial of Jesus to the servant girl, accompanied by the brazier (a fire they had kindled in the hall). See Luke 22:54-57 (KJV)<https://www.biblegateway..com/passage/?search=luke%2022:54-22:57&version=KJV>.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Gordon Plumb<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Genevra
>
> I think it is a brazier with a fair in it - Peter was, according to the gospe4ls warming himself at the fire when approached for by one those accusing him of being with Jesus.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Genevra Kornbluth<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 18:31
> Subject: [M-R] ID for an Instrument of the Passion
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> I
> am currently indexing a batch of my photographs from Warsaw, and need
> help
> identifying an object in a Man of Sorrows image.
> The painting is online
> here
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wroc%C5%82aw_Christ_as_Man_of_Sorrows.jpg
> though
> I hope that my photos are clearer. In the upper corner, just to
> the left of
> Peter's denial, is an object that looks like a grill on a
> handle, with red
> somethings emerging from it. Any ideas what it might
> be?
> Thanks!
> Genevra
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