I have already discussed this in part with Nick so am hopefully not
springing anything new here, or rattling the cage any further. But a point
worth making I think is that the particular book being reviewed miscasts
itself in my view as a much needed survey of an overlooked field. See its
own promotional material to verify this. The challenge is heightened with
the book lacking a specific editorial or preface to adequately clarify its
context, in my view. So criticism of the book as a survey publication 'may'
be justified. Without a well worked editorial there is a gap which can be
exploited and indeed exposed.
best
B
On Wednesday, 18 June 2014, Nick Lambert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been mulling a direct response to Pobric but will let things simmer
> while I try and finish a project. One could ask why Pobric even bothered
> reviewing the book at all, if he felt it wasn't worth his time? (I must
> admit an interest here, as I had an essay in *Art and the Internet*). It's
> instructive to look at his website http://www.pacpobric.com/ and read his
> scribblings on the weighty issues of the Art World. Draw your own
> conclusions!
>
> I agree with Sarah that the amnesia relating to internet art - and digital
> art in the broad sense - is more than irritating. How many times will it be
> "discovered" by the "mainstream", and how often is Hockney the example they
> use? Nicholas is right to ask for a conversation about the aesthetic
> aspects of this area. The Art Newspaper has its own provincialism and I
> think of it as a trade mag for Cork Street and Chelsea (NYC) - and Dubai
> too, no doubt. That's not to understate its importance in certain places,
> but we should ask ourselves why Pobric felt motivated to write a hit piece
> like this.
>
> I would venture that it's because he and his peers fear losing control of
> the "art conversation". The Internet has already forced open the boundaries
> of their world and they hate being disrupted by people they've never even
> heard of, from parts of the globe where their holy writ doesn't run.
> Pobric's association of the Net with the great unwashed - the contempt that
> he, a denizen of the rarefied heights of the New York art scene, feels for
> the mass who discuss cookery or cars on the Intraweb - speaks volumes.
>
> The obvious fulcrum to turn Pobric's argument on its head (as suggested by
> Nicholas and Marc) is the term "insularity". They hate the effrontery of
> outsiders entering the art world with new ideas, more diverse faces and a
> technology that (as is evident from the article) they barely comprehend.
>
> As Marc notes, the broader demographies of the internet are precisely what
> Pobric and his fellow art provincials fear the most, since their economy is
> predicated on the penthouse and the boardroom.
>
> More to come!
>
> Nick
>
> All best,
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:41 PM, marc garrett <
> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Nicholas & all,
> >
> >
> > >So instead of operating in the suburbs, how could the list propose that
> > it is in fact the
> > >art world that is suburban - with its gated community paywalls,
> whitecube
> > picket fences,
> > >and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around.
> >
> > I agree with the above & Sarah's post on the matter works for me.
> >
> > Anyway -- I'm too busy at the moment with our 'provincial' exhibition. A
> > collaboration with The Arts Catalyst "SEFT-1 Abandoned Railways
> Exploration
> > Probe: Modern Ruins 1:220 -- Ivan Puig and Andrés Padilla Domene"
> > http://go.shr.lc/1jy7AJo
> >
> > It was featured in the Guardian last week by Jonathan jones 'The
> > ruin-hunters who drove a car down Mexico's forgotten railways'
> > http://go.shr.lc/1qwbV4K
> >
> > And will be featured on the BBC news on Friday...
> >
> > Oh wait! I get it, it's seen as 'provincial' because the work
> successfully
> > reaches people, beyond their art establishment silos. Of course ;-)
> >
> > bye for now.
> >
> > marc
> >
> >
> >
> > > Sarah + all:
> > >
> > > I actually think that there's some stuff worth engaging in this...
> > >
> > > I haven't read Joanne's book, so I can't speak to the ways in which
> this
> > > piece fails as a review, but this closing statement definitely sent a
> > > shiver down my browser:
> > >
> > > "The problem with the book, as with internet art, is that no one has
> > > recognised the aesthetic problems of provincial conversation. Work by
> > > artists who turn inward to have hushed talks with a small coterie about
> > > local problems will have little effect on culture at large. McLuhan's
> > > global village may have its merits, but the cultural celebration of
> > > marginalism in art is not one of them."
> > >
> > > The reactionary in me would outright disagree with this, but I did
> have a
> > > moment of thinking bout who does address the aesthetic problems of the
> > > "provincial conversation" of internet art. So maybe as a way of
> thinking
> > > about outright disagreeing with Pac Pobric, the list might suggest some
> > > compelling counters?
> > >
> > > To that end, the metric of cultural relevance as proposed in this
> article
> > > is squarely situated in archaic models of art presentation/distribution
> > (I
> > > think that a lot of us can agree on that). So instead of operating in
> the
> > > suburbs, how could the list propose that it is in fact the art world
> that
> > > is suburban - with its gated community paywalls, whitecube picket
> fences,
> > > and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around.
> > >
> > > very best
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Kelani Nichole <
> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> He is based in Brooklyn, no worries tho y'all I already invited him to
> > our
> > >> next opening at TRANSFER - Claudia Maté on July 12 :D
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Bests,
> > >> Kelani Nichole
> > >>
> > >> Curatorial Director, TRANSFER
> > >> http://transfer.gallery
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM, marc garrett <
> > >> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Wow!
> > >>>
> > >>> Where do they find these people?
> > >>>
> > >>> marc
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi CRUMBs
> > >>>> thought you might be interested to read this article about internet
> > art,
> > >>>> which is a thin review of the book Art and the Internet, Joanne
> McNeil
> > >> et
> > >>>> al, Black Dog Publishing.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >> http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Internet-art-
> > fails-to-click/32983
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It suggests that internet art takes place in the suburbs, that it is
> > >>>> provincial.
> > >>>> Use it as yet another rallying cry to improve the art history of
> this
> > >>>> field of practice.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sarah
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ===
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dr. Sarah Cook
> > >>>> Reader / Dundee Fellow
> > >>>> Duncan of Jordanstone College of Art and Design
> > >>>> University of Dundee
> > >>>> 13 Perth Road DD1 4HT
> > >>>>
> > >>>> phone: 01382 385247
> > >>>> email: [log in to unmask] <javascript:;><mailto:
> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No:
> > SC015096
> > >>>> .
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> --->
> > >>>
> > >>> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
> > >>> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> > >>>
> > >>> Other reviews,articles,interviews
> > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> > >>>
> > >>> Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating,
> viewing,
> > >>> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
> > >>> intersections of art, technology and social change.
> > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org
> > >>>
> > >>> Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London).
> > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> > >>>
> > >>> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> > >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org
> > >>>
> > >>> http://identi.ca/furtherfield
> > >>> http://twitter.com/furtherfield
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --->
> >
> > A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
> > proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> >
> > Other reviews,articles,interviews
> > http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> >
> > Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
> > discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
> > intersections of art, technology and social change.
> > http://www.furtherfield.org
> >
> > Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London).
> > http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> >
> > Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> > http://www.netbehaviour.org
> >
> > http://identi.ca/furtherfield
> > http://twitter.com/furtherfield
> >
>
>
>
> --
> =================
> Dr Nick Lambert (DPhil Oxon)
> Lecturer in Digital Art and Culture
> Department of History of Art & Screen Media
> Birkbeck, University of London
> 43 Gordon Square,
> London, WC1H 0PD
> www.technocultures.org.uk
> Mobile: 0781 0381 458
>
--
Bronaċ
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