I did Mark. The flippant might not. I could paint with a very broad brush
and ask: has poetry become corrupt? and answer: Yes. There are
qualifications - one, it has always been corrupt anyhow, but not to the
deadening degree we now enjoy. Two: its present fall from grace is
symptomatic of the wider world around it, poetry isn't just the Cinderella
of the Arts, it's an Ugly Sister playing her part.
As an antidote to present despair I could recommend a penitential
re-reading of Johnson's 'Lives of the Poets', other than the magnificent
anticipation of Dostoevsky in the Life of Savage and the notable disputable
essay on Milton. The Great Cham reminds you, from his Tory fog, that it has
always been bad - all unmemorable somebodys seeking patronage. The problem
now is the industrial scale of the crap.
best
dave
On 7 May 2014 00:27, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> David: read my post as rueful.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: May 6, 2014 6:47 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
> >
> >My dear Mark, I find that a bit difficult to deal with: I could be among
> >the recipients. The history of 'caritas' is truly complex, my own take is
> >that it means that which is freely given, unconditional a la Simone Weil.
> >My estimation of poetry is that at its rare heights it too is a giveaway,
> a
> >no strings attached. The rest is most definitely not silence, more a lot
> of
> >noise and muttering :)
> >
> >
> >On 6 May 2014 18:45, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps if they could be paid in kind--so many ounces of food per hour.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 1:38 PM
> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
> >> >
> >> >Consider the 'Like' button pressed, Mark!
> >> >
> >> >Although the 'volunteers' are mostly people on minimal benefits and if
> >> they
> >> >were paid of course the benefits would disappear with a massive
> 'whoosh'
> >> >and a huge 'thump'.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On 6 May 2014 18:31, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I suppose we could start a charity that collects money to pay
> >> volunteers.
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 1:26 PM
> >> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Something like that is supposed to be starting here (as of March
> just
> >> >> gone)
> >> >> >see
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-release-opens-the-lid-on-charity-finances
> >> >> >
> >> >> >but it's very hard to unravel. I recently went as a 'lay
> >> representative'
> >> >> to
> >> >> >an all-day event on presentations from interested charities for some
> >> >> >lottery monies, I won't be too specific. What really stood out to me
> >> and
> >> >> >other 'panelists' was that in each case the funds asked for were
> >> solely to
> >> >> >support a paid co-ordinator and for their 'office space'. It was
> >> assumed
> >> >> in
> >> >> >every presentation that the 'actual work' would be done by
> >> 'volunteers',
> >> >> >which as you know increasingly means people working for nothing
> under
> >> >> >compulsion.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >btw a 2011 list I saw, via the Charity Commision, gave, as the
> second
> >> >> >highest funded charity in the country, the Arts Council! -
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.charityinsight.com/news/income-generation/the-top-100-charity-index-
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >best
> >> >> >
> >> >> >dave
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On 6 May 2014 17:59, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> In this country charities have to make public the percentage of
> >> >> donations
> >> >> >> that actually support the charity's ostensible goals.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 12:50 PM
> >> >> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I had not known theft had undone so many.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >wait a sec ... that's by ... oh and ...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Francis Bacon reportedly told Queen Elizabeth, upon her demanding
> >> that
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >author of Richard II be tried for treason, that he should
> 'rather be
> >> >> >> >charged with larceny, for he hath stolen most of his lines from
> >> >> Cornelius
> >> >> >> >Tacitus'.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >You can though, earn a reasonable middle-class income via
> acquiring
> >> the
> >> >> >> >status of a poet, through creative writing teaching etc etc,
> which
> >> , as
> >> >> >> one
> >> >> >> >recently recognised 'poet' put it, is much 'better than the
> world of
> >> >> >> work'.
> >> >> >> >So it becomes awfully convenient to appropriate material for your
> >> >> claim to
> >> >> >> >status. In that respect the articles are misleading - people do
> >> make a
> >> >> >> >living out of poetry nowadays, far more so than in the past.
> >> >> >> >It, and not plagiarism, is very similar to what has happened to
> >> >> charities,
> >> >> >> >where the main financial thrust is to support paid
> 'co-ordinators'.
> >> >> >> >Churches of course are bedevilled by jobsworths - I recall a
> friend
> >> >> >> showing
> >> >> >> >me a parish newsletter where the incumbent had written 'it is the
> >> >> purpose
> >> >> >> >of a church and its congregation to provide for and support a
> >> priest'.
> >> >> >> >I don't think the poetical plagiarists write for 'fame' - but
> for a
> >> >> >> >comfortable recognition in a quiet corner of happy unseen
> feeding.
> >> Like
> >> >> >> >fish, in the hidden parts of a pond.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >best
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >dave
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >On 6 May 2014 00:23, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> So many? I know of a couple ... well, maybe a few.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 5, 2014, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > Laziness, panic, narcissism, low self-esteem, ambition,
> >> deliberate
> >> >> >> >> > self-sabotage: Why so many poets are plagiarizing…
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/article/247130
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Ruth Graham: Word Theft:
> >> >> >> >> > 2013 the year of the plagiarists
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >> >> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >> >> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> >> >> >> >The Animal Subsides
> >> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >> >> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> >> >> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
> >> >> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> >> >> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >> >> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> >> >> >The Animal Subsides
> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> >> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
> >> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> >> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> >> >The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> >The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
>
--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
|