Dear Terry,
The way you've asked these questions is quite interesting. If the day permits, I'll do some looking to see what a few experts offer as their reasoning before offering my own. This moves far beyond Chris's request for advice, and it engages the context of doctoral education as whole. A doctoral program is a training program for apprentice researchers. Within this context, the PhD thesis is the journeyman researcher's demonstration of his or her right to enter the guild of masters and scholars. All this has clear implications and sets explicit expectations for the PhD thesis in all regards.
On a coo Melbourne morning with Freddy. He's the four-legged fellow who solved the Pythagorean theorem.
Ken
Sent from my iPhone
On 01/01/2014, at 3:47, "Terence Love" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Ken and all,
>
>
> Thank you for the insights and to Chris for the question which has opened up
> an often taken for granted area .
>
> Two other questions:
>
> 1. What are the justifiable reasons for citing others work? I ask it this
> way round rather than the opposite (which is more usual) because I think
> this way gives more insights; and,
>
> 2. Are the justifiable reasons for citing others work the same for a
> PhD/Masters/Hons thesis as they are in a research paper?
>
> I think not.
>
> This latter is on the basis that a key role of the PHD thesis is as an
> assessment instrument of the candidate rather than the arguments and
> research proof in terms of new knowledge.
>
> Most PhD thesis assessment guides insist that one of the purposes of the
> thesis is the demonstration by the candidate of their personal formation in
> terms of the breadth and depth of their reading. This is not any part
> research paper. In the latter, the argument proof is primary, i.e. is the
> author's claim proven by the combination of theoretically proven reasoning
> and the evidence presented.
>
> So, . . . shoulf the PhD candidate be advised to reference differently to
> what they would do in a research paper. . . ??
>
> Best wishes,
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Friedman
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 December 2013 4:32 AM
> To: PhD-Design PhD-Design
> Subject: Re: Advice about referencing practice.
>
> Dear Chris,
>
> Greetings! Glad you are popping up on the list from time to time - you have
> been missed.
>
> Woke up this morning to discover your query.
>
> Practices on the reference list itself seem to be very clear. While most
> discussions focus on articles or books, the rule applies to theses as well.
>
> A reference list is a comprehensive list of those items cited in the
> document. A reference list is a compilation of the external sources to which
> an author refers.
>
> The only items that belong in a reference list appear in the thesis. Each
> item cited in the text must appear in the reference list. Every item in the
> reference list must appear in the text.
>
> Is it acceptable to publish both a reference list and a bibliography?
> Probably not.
>
> It's an interesting question. I spent several hours over toast and coffee
> trying to find a standard answer to the question in different style guides,
> supervising guides, thesis advice books, and the like. This seems to be such
> an atypical concept in thesis projects that only one book even considers it.
> That source agrees with David Durling.
>
> Marian Petre and Gordon Rugg (2010: 70-71) discuss "what you read, versus
> what you cite."
>
> They conclude that, "what you need to read is a different matter from what
> you end up citing. For every paper that ends up in the reference list in
> your dissertation, there will be a number of others that do not. What you
> cite is a selection from what you have read" (Petre and Rugg 2010: 71).
>
> The reference list is a conceptual tool focused on the thesis. It allows
> readers to locate and review documentation and evidence that influence or
> support the thesis. This is different to a bibliography of texts that
> influence the development of the writer.
>
> The thesis is a research project in which the PhD candidate demonstrates his
> or her skill as a researcher. The thesis answers a research question, making
> a contribution to the knowledge of the field. The thesis is about a research
> question. It is not a document of biographical development. Works that
> influence the author of the thesis are useful to the author. They are not
> useful to the reader, and they don't belong in the thesis.
>
> Two kinds of reading-related documents sometimes appear in a thesis, but
> these are not simple bibliographies.
>
> One is the bibliographic essay. The bibliographic essay is the type of essay
> that one often finds in the back matter of scholarly works or documents
> where one might wish to introduce readers to the background literature. When
> a thesis contains a bibliographic essay, it may cover documents that do not
> appear in the thesis. Everything in a bibliographic essay is focused on the
> thesis topic.
>
> The other kind of document is an annotated bibliography. This can be a
> useful adjunct document. It, too, focuses on the thesis topic.
>
> You have it right where you say, "If you have read something that has
> influenced your work then it should be possible to cite it in an appropriate
> way. Without doing that it seems impossible to show your scholarship in
> action..."
>
> The business of the PhD student is to show scholarship in action. The
> reference list in a thesis covers documents that influence the work at hand.
>
> Warmest wishes,
>
> Ken
>
> Ken Friedman, PhD, DSc (hc), FDRS | University Distinguished Professor |
> Swinburne University of Technology | Melbourne, Australia |
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> | Mobile +61 404 830
> 462 | Home Page
> http://www.swinburne.edu.au/design/people/Professor-Ken-Friedman-ID22.html<h
> ttp://www.swinburne.edu.au/design> Academia Page
> http://swinburne.academia.edu/KenFriedman About Me Page
> http://about.me/ken_friedman
>
> Guest Professor | College of Design and Innovation | Tongji University |
> Shanghai, China
>
> --
>
> References
>
> Rugg, Gordon, and Marian Petre. 2010. The Unwritten Rules of PhD Research.
> Second Edition. Maidenhead and New York: Open University Press and McGraw
> Hill.
>
> --
>
> Chris Rust wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> One of my PhD students is revising his thesis after his viva. One of the
> recommendations from the examiners was to provides his references in two
> lists: a list of references for things he is citing in the thesis and a
> separate bibliography for stuff he has read that is not directly cited.
>
> I think what may have happened was that he had some stuff in the
> bibliography that was not actually cited in the text and they picked up on
> that.
>
> This seems very odd to me. My own practice has always been that there should
> be a single bibliography and it is not good practice to include anything in
> there that isn't clearly cited in the text. If you have read something that
> has influenced your work then it should be possible to cite it in an
> appropriate way. Without doing that it seems impossible to show your
> scholarship in action and there's a real danger of people just dumping
> vaguely relevant references in there to make it look better.
>
> I'd like to take this up with one of the examiners but first I'd appreciate
> some feedback on what other people think. My main concern is that, once it's
> published, the thesis should reflect well on the student and the university,
> and especially I don't want him to go away misunderstanding of the point of
> a bibliography and passing that on to his students.
>
> -snip-
>
> --
>
> David Durling wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> It seems to me that any assiduous PhD candidate will have read and noted
> much more material than eventually gets to stay in the thesis, following
> updating of the literature review, honing of the argument, reflowing of
> parts, possibly some fundamental restructuring. I have therefore always
> advised that the references refer only to what is stated as evidence in
> direct support of the argument. In other words, if it's cited in the body of
> the text then it should be in the references section. All other material,
> however interesting it may have been at the time, is not part of the thesis.
>
> I can see there might be value in a parallel reading list, but I would have
> concerns about where the boundary for inclusion might be drawn. As a
> researcher I feel sure I was influenced among many other things by English
> pub signs, Alice's adventures, the Vienna Circle, navigation, and a
> wonderful book on bricklaying - but none of these texts supported my
> argument so were not referenced. Maybe I can use them in some future work...
>
> -snip-
>
>
>
>
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