I agree it is a dangerous road to go down, and your hellish vision of a 'subsumed' library service is not that unlikely if we continue at a pace down the co-located, shared service and 'hub/one stop shop' route. The other related concern that I have is the creation of premium services within libraries, basically if you have the money you get it quicker, surely this raises professional and ethical concerns?

Alan Wylie
Librarian
Islington Central Reference Library
2 Fieldway Crescent
London Borough of Islington
N5 1PF
0207 527 6931
[log in to unmask]

-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clark, Ian ([log in to unmask])
Sent: 18 July 2013 13:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Council services cheaper online...

Agree entirely...as you know, banging on about the digital divide is one of my favourite hobbies! Though I wish I didn't have cause to. In this particular case was intrigued by the idea that a council service, funded by all local tax payers, was making discounts accessible to some but not others. I sort of expect this from utility providers etc (although I also think that is unfair), but find it a bit odd in terms of a council discriminating between different types of taxpayer. Seems to me to be a dangerous road to go down...if indeed that is what is suggested here which I may not have understood correctly (or, has been reported in a misleading way...which I would like to think obviously, but perhaps not!).



I do also worry about the way technology is being incorporated into the service (whilst agreeing that the tech is not itself the 'villain')...seems we will very soon be in a situation where libraries are a public service point for the council, with books and other library services as a minor sideline (how long before the library aspect is subsumed altogether and if you want a book you have to download or order it from the council website, in the 'council hub' or from home?). Probably a bit too bleak and unlikely, but still...



Ian Clark

Library Systems Officer,

Augustine House,

Canterbury Christ Church University



Tel: 01227 767700 ext 3141



Follow us on Twitter: @ccculibrary



From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
Sent: 18 July 2013 12:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Council services cheaper online...



Regardless of the type of bill being paid isn't the real point internet access?



If you're currently relying on using a public library to get online you are going to be severely disadvantaged when that library disappears. Paying your bills - whether council or otherwise - will be just one way in which you will find life getting tougher.



The disconnect here is between a government that chooses to view public libraries as the safety net for those who aren't online and local authorities who view that same service as an optional extra. The government chooses to believe that online access to services is being brokered by the local authorities. The LAs often see that as something their constituents should provide for themselves. Those who aren't online are becoming invisible in an increasingly "digital by default" society.



In my world (RFID and LMS) the trend is for equipment suppliers to focus on increasing the scope of the services they offer local authorities to be delivered via library-based devices. Privateers (sorry - clearly I meant "privatisers") like Laing have been particularly eager to use devices (in Hounslow for example), originally intended to manage self-service loans and returns for the library, to deliver other council services - it's this "added value" that councillors find so attractive. As the libraries close down these devices may of course end up being used in other public spaces to perform what was originally a secondary function in the library - paid for by cutting the book fund.



Ironic doesn't come close.



This shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone. Former SCL chair Nicky Parker warned a roads how I attended in Manchester over two years ago that librarians would increasingly find themselves helping the public pay their parking fines rather than finding books.



I would expect that plans are already in place to allow such devices to handle other payments - like utility bills. It makes perfect sense from the point of view of cash strapped LA executives and would certainly be supported by the government as being 'innovative'.



I think it would be wrong to view the technology as the villain in this piece though. The argument isn't really about the technology, it's about whether we care about those that can't use it or not - and what we do about that.



I think Dame Joan's wider point is essentially that if you can't get online you will be punished.



But public librarians know that already don't they?



Mick



m. +44 (0)7786 625544 <tel:%2B44%20%280%297786%20625544> t. +33 555 61 03 71 e. [log in to unmask]

@mickfortune <http://twitter.com/mickfortune>



From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clark, Ian ([log in to unmask])
Sent: 18 July 2013 12:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Council services cheaper online...



I did wonder that too, but the title ("Older people 'penalised' by cheaper online council bills, warns peer") suggests it is council services, as does this extract from the article:



Baroness Bakewell, a Labour peer, said more and more councils were "going online" at the expense of their older residents.



"In fact, they are offering a bribe-a reduction for people who pay their bills online-thus penalising the millions of older people who are not willing or able to go online themselves," she said.



It's the bit where she says councils are 'offering a bribe' that gets me...if it is utility companies offering a discount, surely that has nothing to do with councils and therefore cannot be described as councils 'offering a bribe'. Or am I completely mis-reading this?



Ian Clark

Library Systems Officer,

Augustine House,

Canterbury Christ Church University



Tel: 01227 767700 ext 3141



Follow us on Twitter: @ccculibrary



From: Mobeena Khan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 18 July 2013 11:01
To: Clark, Ian ([log in to unmask]); [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Council services cheaper online...



I think this might be more in reference to utiltiy companies charging extra if you pay in cash at the Post Office or send a cheque in rather than doing it online or by DD. Could that be the case rather than discounted services?



Mobeena



Mobeena Khan

Stock and Reader Development Librarian

West Area, Watford Central Library



Libraries, Culture and Learning

Health and Community Services

Hertfordshire County Council



Hempstead Road, Watford, Herts, WD17 3EU



01923 336480 Comet/Internal Number: 29480

Mobile Phone Number: 07932 717910



Working days - Wednesday, Thursday and Friday



Follow Hertfordshire Libraries on Twitter <https://twitter.com/HertsLibraries> Find us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/hertslibraries>





From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clark, Ian ([log in to unmask])
Sent: 18 July 2013 09:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Council services cheaper online...



Hi,



This might not be quite the place for this, but it does touch on an area that affects public libraries so thought I'd post it here.



I noticed a report on publicservice.co.uk quoting Baroness Bakewell as saying that councils are...



"offering a bribe-a reduction for people who pay their bills online-thus penalising the millions of older people who are not willing or able to go online themselves."

[Source: http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=23467]



Is anyone aware of councils offering discounts if people pay for council services online? If they are, I wonder where this leaves those who do not have internet access, particularly if their local library is closed...



Thanks,



Ian Clark

Library Systems Officer,

Augustine House,

Canterbury Christ Church University



Tel: 01227 767700 ext 3141



Follow us on Twitter: @ccculibrary







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