Terry,
Nice response! I could quibble about your categorization of Johann 's and my comments because I agree with the many views one can take of "self" that you enumerate. I can even go farther and grant you poetic license when using "illusion"to avoid such a nuanced description. My main point was that it is very difficult to design to meet an ever adaptive state of "knowing oneself" whether by designer or user. I prefer to think of it as a reflective interpretation of situated phenomena that places emphasis on the thinker's prior experience and summary beliefs, preferences and habits. ie. a fine example of usually subconcious Reflective Thought as in A Theory of Design Thinking.
Or so I believe,
Chuck
On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:08 PM, Terence Love wrote:
> Hi Chuck and Johann,
>
> There are some subtle points around these issues that seem to be causing
> confusion.
>
> Damasio is careful to distinguish between:
>
> 1.The phenomenological experience of ' sense of self' as perceived
> subjectively
>
> 2. 'Idea of self' as a philosophically defined abstract concept referring
> to a pseudo-real entity (similar to 'peace' or 'a swim' (if you are 'going
> for aswim' then when you come back show me this 'swim' thing that you have
> gone to collect). In essence, the 'idea of self' as 'me' is culturally
> determined. There are exercises in perception that demonstrate how this can
> be thought of differently. It is a theory construction not a 'taken for
> given' truth.
>
> 3. The physiological processes by which 'sense of self' is created
>
> 4. The physical entities that are the necessary pre-cursor building blocks
> on which the physical process by which 'sense of self' is operationalized
> within an individual.
>
> 5. The externally perceived apparent construct 'self' of a person as a
> package of partially predictable behaviours that appear to others as if an
> individual is operating fully as an executive agent.
>
> 6. The 'content' of the internally constructed in each moment concept of
> 'self' as subjectively perceived by an individual as their bodies construct
> it to be sensed.
>
> 7. The 'content', as perceived by others, of the internally constructed
> in each moment concept of 'self' as unconsciously constructed by an
> individual as their bodies construct to be sensed.
>
> Chuck is talking more about 4 and 6.
>
> Johan is talking primarily about 5, 6 and 7.
>
> The discussion about 'self as an illusion' involves all of them and starts
> from 1.
>
> Regards,
> Terry
> ===
> Dr Terence Love FDRS, AMIMechE, PMACM, MISI
> Director,
> Love Services Pty Ltd
> PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks
> Western Australia 6030
> [log in to unmask]
> www.loveservices.com.au
> ===
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
> research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Charles
> Burnette
> Sent: 13 March 2013 06:58
> To: Dr Terence Love
> Subject: The self issue
>
> Dear Colleagues,
> I think that there is a somewhat confused understanding of what the self is
> all about. It isn't an illusion.
> It is a neural manifestation built up in the memory of every individual from
> their experience in the world.
> It changes as we mature, learn and reflect on our existence. Because it is a
> cognitive artifact created by each person it is not the easiest object of
> thought to apprehend. Although designers should definitely try to
> understand people as individuals it is very hard not to generalize, or apply
> our own self images on their behalf.
> Those interested in the cognitive and cultural ramifications of self should
> read Antonio Damasio's most recent book "Self Comes to Mind". In it he
> writes" it depends on the brain's capacity to hold expansive memory records
> not only of motor skills but also of facts and events, in particular,
> personal facts and events, those that make up the scaffolding of biography
> and personhood and individual identity." p289 Not an illusion, just
> memories, however formed.
>
> Or, so I believe,
> Chuck
>
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