medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Pat Cullum <[log in to unmask]>
> I doubt this is about tithes.
me, too.
mainly because i've never heard of an ecclesiastical institution *owing*
tithes (to whom??) --only *being owed* tithes.
>It is a statement of their overall finances in a particular year.
would seem to be.
>Their total income is c.250 li.
this is what might be expected to be the total income of a relatively
prosperous priory --which St. Suplice-sur-Risle (L'Aigle) certainly was, since
its foundation in the late 10th c.
i've got an 1155 confirmation charter by the local lord which is one of the
most extensive and detailed i have ever seen --*lots* of property, old and
new, outlined in that charter, probably confirmed, at least in part, to secure
the income for the mother house, which was in the middle of a massive building
campaign:
http://mappinggothic.org/building/1091
http://mappinggothic.org/image/42160
the earliest _pouille_ for the diocese of Evreux that i can find dates from
1370
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5917m.r=.langEN
and it doesn't mention the total "value" of this priory.
however, it does mention the amount which is owed for "procuration" (debentes
procurationes), which is "7 grossos" (whatever that is)
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5917m/f260.image.r=.langEN
but 100 pounds (per year?) owed for procuration alone would seem to be a
*huge* amount, so it couldn't be that, could it?
here's a typical page of procuration rates owed (from another diocese, picked
at random)
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5917m/f231.image.r=.langEN]
53 s. per annum.
take a while to get to 100 pounds, at that rate.
it's not procuration fees.
>Their accumulated debts which may be to multiple individuals/institutions and
may have been acquired over more than one year, but as the indication of other
years shows, debts could be incurred and paid over quite short periods of
time.
giving these figures for the amount owed seems to be a quite common element of
Odo's visitation records --many, many houses had such debts, great and small.
as i say, gives the impression that the whole damned Province of Rouen was
living on the cuff, spending their borrowed money on feather beds, meat and
linen shirts.
>So in one year the house owes money and in another money may be owed to it.
In an economy where there was limited liquidity, debts were common. Building
campaigns or the purchase of fine liturgical goods could be expensive. Equally
monastic houses might, if they did have cash reserves, sometimes lend them.
Hence, perhaps, money owed to the house.
anything is possible, i suppose, but it doesn't seem to me that these are
records of "ordinary" debts --or, for that matter, of extraordinary ones, like
for building campaigns.
what they are, however, is another question entirely.
many thanks for the thoughts, Pat.
c
> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:37:40 -0400
> From: Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Odo Rigaud @ L'Aigle [<Vulgate in England]
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> ?
>
> no one here has an idea about what
>
> "They have an income of 250 pounds; they owe about a hundred pounds"
>
> or
>
> "They have an income of 250 pounds; more was owed to them than they owed"
>
> or
>
> "They had an income of about 300 pounds"
>
> might mean?
>
> c
>
>
>
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