Hi Keith,
'Affect machines' - good one. Sweet.
Causal explanation and the rational formal pathways to modelling it are
central to Poppers position. That's different to correlation.
How does this fit with your position?
All the best,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Keith
Russell
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012 11:15 AM
To: Dr Terence Love
Subject: Re: Testing design theory - Popper's three worlds (was
'designtheorytesting')
Dear Terry,
I agree with you - I call my stuff (poetry etc.) affect machines. The
different level of abstraction you talk about is of course the place where
the model (that T S Eliot uses) is generated.
I would want to make slightly larger claims for the concept of correlatives.
Nothing can properly be measured against anything else (except itself, which
is a useful observation). So, in that logical sense, nothing is commensurate
with anything other than itself. That is, Popper is talking about
conventions of correlativity and not talking about commensuration.
Trying to be strict about conventions is a useful effort so long as the
possibility of other ("new") co-relations is included as a possibility.
Which is how I take your neurological examples.
cheers
keith
>>> Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> 19/12/2012 1:57 pm >>>
Hi Keith,
Sure. I agree, but that is primarily testing the usefulness(applicability)
of a theory. It is not testing the validity of the theory - which seemed to
be what Jurgen and Tim were discussing.
Some places one is important, in some the other is. In some situations, a
theory is good enough if it will indicate which direction an effect will
move in in response to a change!
What poets are doings (as you describe) is creating an emotion-generating
machine. The 'model' or 'theory' about how/why that happens and how to
predict how best to design such emotion-making machines is further back, at
a different level of abstraction and in a different Popperian world - no?
Cheers,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Keith
Russell
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012 10:36 AM
To: Dr Terence Love
Subject: Re: Testing design theory - Popper's three worlds (was 'design
theorytesting')
Dear Terry,
I have taken a quote from your post: "You cannot look at external reality
(external world) and prove the truth [about] what an individual is feeling
(subjective world)".
Poets, according to T S Eliot, aim to produce, through language, what he
calls "object correlatives" for emotions (subjective states) that a poet
wishes to have occur in readers. That is, a poet is not interested in
expressing an emotion (such as "I feel hurt my girlfriend dumped me"; what a
poet is interested in is producing the aesthetic feeling of "hurt" in a
reader via the affects produced by a reader giving their consciousness over
to the external object (objective correlative).
We can readily see how such a model might help account for the relationship
between an object designer, the objects that they make, and a person who
experiences such made objects (hence aesthetic).
So, what this suggests is that we can look at an object (made object -
external reality - for example, a poo the performance artist did on the
floor) and predict that an adult person will feel revulsion (subjective
state).
Following this model we can pretty soon predict, with a high degree of
regularity, how people will subjectively experience language objects which
are firstly in the external world and then secondly in an internal world (as
neurological events) and thirdly caught up in a subjective affective state.
The fact that we can NOT determine a truth about this, absolutely, beyond
YES they have received the message or NO they have not received the message,
is pretty dull stuff. We are mostly rightly interested in everything that
happens after YES.
cheers
keith
>>> Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> 19/12/2012 12:44 pm >>>
Dear Jurgen and all,
For testing theory, I've found Popper's 'three incommensurate worlds' model
useful (Popper 1976).
It gives some clear and precise boundaries and insights.
Most people think of 'falsification' as the mainstay of Popper. His 'Three
Incommensurate Worlds' model is what locates that understanding about the
role of falsification, and provides the real value of Popper's work in
understanding 'testing' and the devising of tests for validity.
Put simply, Popper argues reality can be separated into three incommensurate
worlds:
1. The world of subjective and subjective experiences
2. The world of theory
3. The world of the external and objective
The significant issue is these are incommensurate. This needs saying again
- the three worlds are *incommensurate*, i.e completely and totally
independent.
The implication is you cannot prove the truth of anything in one world using
observations from the other worlds. In an essential way, they are not
causally linked.
In each, proof is only valid within its own world.
For example, in the limit,
You cannot look at external reality (external world) and prove the truth
what an individual is feeling (subjective world)
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