Dear M.P.,
Thanks for your post. I enjoyed 'A Cautious Prometheus?' too. The ideas that I summarised in my earlier posts were from Latour's earlier work, which took science as its starting point. It is interesting that he has moved closer and closer to design over the years, and is now speaking very directly to us. I find his earlier texts just as interesting to engage with as his later ones - and all have something to contribute to discussion about design, I think. This is such rich territory - we are hardly scratching the surface.
Best wishes, Susan
Susan Stewart B.Arch, PhD
Senior Lecturer in Design
School of Design, Faculty of DAB
University of Technology Sydney
________________________________________
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ranjan MP [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Activity Theory and ANT and computers are capable of design?
Dear Susan
You have brought an important aspect for discussion on the list and I agree
with you that the work of Latour and that of Fry are deeply interesting if
we are to understand the various dimensions of design. Latour in my view
exhibits a profound understanding of design and I was hugely impressed by
his paper "A Cautius Prometheus?" to the Design History congress in 2008
and I have since been following his writings and I discover more insights
of great value as it draws me deeper..
<http://www.design-for-india.blogspot.in/search/label/Bruno%20Latour>
Design is complex and we need to look at it from many angles and
perspectives as I have mentioned earlier and there can be many positions,
all of which could be true and valuable. There is not one correct answer.
Wicked indeed.
With warm regards
M P Ranjan
from my iMac at home on the nID campus
16 August 2012 at 11.00 pm IST
-------------------------------------------------------------
*Prof M P Ranjan*
*Design Thinker and author of blog -
www.Designforindia.com<http://design-for-india.blogspot.com/>
*
E8 Faculty Housing
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
email: ranjanmp@g <[log in to unmask]>mail.com
<[log in to unmask]>web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp
<http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp>web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in
<http://www.ranjanmp.in/>blog: <http://www.design-for-india.blogspot.com>
education blog: <http://www.design-concepts-and-concerns.blogspot.com>
education blog: http://www.visible-information-india.blogspot.com
<http://www.visible-information-india.blogspot.com/>
------------------------------------------------------------
On 15 August 2012 19:57, Susan Stewart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Terry, Ken, MP and other list-dwellers,
>
> I seem to have touched a nerve!
>
> My suggestion was that a blurring of the distinction between agency and
> intention is not helpful in discussing ANT.
>
> Agency and intention can be discussed separately. Wind and water are
> agents of erosion. As agents, they effect change.
>
> The kind of agency that Latour is interested in, however, is not that of a
> single actor (like wind or water or a person), but that of clusters of
> actors that, together, give sufficient weight to a particular direction (or
> disposition) to make that direction (or disposition) influential in some
> way. Some of the actors that contribute to the establishment of a
> disposition or direction may be human, but many will be non-human. These
> latter will include the material and the immaterial, the animate and the
> inanimate, the designed and the un-designed. To the extent that humans are
> influential within a particular actor-network, intentions may play a role;
> however a focus on intentions may lead us to discount the other actors that
> are at play. It was for this reason I suggested that a blurring of the
> distinction between agency and intention might not be helpful in discussing
> Latour's work. This is not to suggest that it is not important that we be
> well intentioned in what we do.
>
> Questions of ethics are important, and Latour's work is provocative in the
> way it reconfigures such questions.
>
> Latour is often playful in tone, but the possibilities that he opens up
> for reading the world in ways other than those that we have become used to,
> are more than refreshing; they suggest completely new ways of thinking
> about the relations between humans, technologies and nature. These
> conversations are never closed. Every stimulating thinker provokes
> discussions that move beyond his or her initial positions.
>
> It was not my intention to be either explaining or defending Latour (or,
> for that matter, Fry - who I have a great respect for) to the list. There
> are others whom I am sure are better placed to do that. Nor was it my
> intention to conflate Latour and Fry - I hope that was clear in my initial
> post. They are different voices within a complex terrain of post-humanist
> thought.
>
> I hope there are some of you, who like me, find this territory to be of
> interest in relation to design.
>
> Cheers, Susan
>
>
> Susan Stewart B.Arch, PhD
> Senior Lecturer in Design
> School of Design, Faculty of DAB
> University of Technology Sydney
> Susan Stewart B.Arch, PhD
> Senior Lecturer in Design
> School of Design, Faculty of DAB
> University of Technology Sydney
>
> ________________________________________
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
> research in Design [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ranjan MP [
> [log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 8:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Activity Theory and ANT and computers are capable of design?
>
> Dear Ken
>
> Your arguments are sound and well grounded in reason and scholarship.
>
> Designer, Design and the Designed objects or offerings as in services and
> rules etc and the concept of "Agency" will all need to be seen in the
> context of another concept that has been proposed by George Soros and that
> is "Reflexivity" (as applied to financial and economic areas) and I tend to
> think that this is perhaps what makes design such a powerful "political"
> force after all. Here "Agency" would be from sociology, philosophy and
> ethics – as we can see from the wiki definitions below
> Sociology <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_(sociology)>
> Philosophy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_(philosophy)>
> Moral <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency>
> and
> Reflexivity a la Soros - from financial and economic fields
> <
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Reflexivity.2C_financial_markets.2C_and_economic_theory
> >
>
> It is other humans in the prevailing context who act on the design and the
> designed thing and make it valuable or a disaster – beyond the imagination
> and the intention of the designer – value bumps far beyond the intrinsic
> value of the material and its various configurations – unpredictable but
> real. Suddenly, there is a huge value bump that could soar far above
> expectations as in a fashion movement or trend or in the runaway success of
> a bestseller product, at least for the time being. Design is a human
> activity that begins with intentions and the results of design are shaped
> and acted upon by the prevailing context and new and unintended but perhaps
> hoped for results may or may not ensue. Scarcity, inflation, and value all
> follow from these relations.
>
> Now, what about computers? What about automated trading algorithms that can
> make or break a market without any reference to the fundamentals of the
> underlying asset? It is all getting very complicated at a very high speed
> and we will need to look closely at some of these designed situations and
> services to fathom the consequences of our designed offerings. Can we make
> the mission of creating responsible designer in education something that
> would include the processing and anticipation of these outcomes as part of
> the design process? Perhaps this is why I called my course at NID "Design
> Concepts and Concerns" - It is not just about design thinking – but also
> about being sensitive to all forms of outcomes including climate change and
> human conflicts that could ensue as a consequence of our expert actions. I
> called it the Avalanche Effect, but not may takers for this concept it
> seems. see this post on my blog Design for India for more about this.
> <
>
> http://www.design-for-india.blogspot.in/2012/07/evolution-of-dcc-course-at-nid.html
> >
>
> With warm regards
>
> M P Ranjan
> from my iMac at home on the NID campus
> 15 August 2012 at 3.35 pm IST
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *Prof M P Ranjan*
> *Design Thinker and author of blog -
> www.Designforindia.com<http://design-for-india.blogspot.com/>
> *
> E8 Faculty Housing
> National Institute of Design
> Paldi
> Ahmedabad 380 007 India
>
> Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
> email: ranjanmp@g <[log in to unmask]>mail.com
>
> <[log in to unmask]>web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp
> <http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp>web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in
> <http://www.ranjanmp.in/>blog: <http://www.design-for-india.blogspot.com>
> education blog: <http://www.design-concepts-and-concerns.blogspot.com>
> education blog: http://www.visible-information-india.blogspot.com
> <http://www.visible-information-india.blogspot.com/>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 15 August 2012 13:22, Ken Friedman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Dear Susan,
> >
> > The noun “agency” has within it a kind of ambiguity that is not always
> > clear. It is one thing to speak of “agency” as the positive capacity of
> > ethical responsibility in making decisions. It is another to speak of
> > “agency” in the sense that agency is the embodied but not purposive
> ability
> > to act in carrying out decisions.
> >
> > While machines may well have agency in the second sense, they do not have
> > agency in the first sense.
> >
> > In the second sense, Tony Fry is right to suggest that “that designed
> > things have an agency in excess of the agency we intend them to have.” If
> > that is what he means by agency, then it is possible to speak of “the
> > agency of non-human (and, specifically, designed) things.”
> >
> > If, however, he means that designed things have ethical responsibility,
> > I’d disagree. I understand the argument, but it seems to me incorrect.
> >
> > There are several ways to describe the problem. While “designed things
> > have an agency in excess of the agency we intend them to have,” we can
> also
> > describe this as the unintended consequences of the designers who design
> > those designed things. The designers remain responsible.
> >
> > To go beyond this, suggesting that designed things are themselves
> > responsible seems to me an argument that does not bear discussion outside
> > the frame of a thought experiment.
> >
> > If we can ascribe agency to designed things in the sense of ethical
> > responsibility, then one could argue that the gas chambers and the
> > railroads had as much responsibility for the Holocaust as the Nazis did.
> >
> > It is precisely this kind of argument around ANT that troubles me. I’m
> > prepared to accept ANT arguments for how things work in systems. I’m
> > troubled by the strong sense of the argument. To say that “post-humanist
> > approaches to thinking about agency challenge the assumption that human
> > agency is independent of non-human agencies.”
> >
> > Human beings may get things wrong and often do. Only ethically
> responsible
> > agents can take responsibility for improvements. Since designed things
> > carry on as they are designed to do, they cannot take responsibility for
> > improvements. The essence of design remains acting to create a preferred
> > future state by solving problems, meeting needs, improving situations, or
> > creating something new or useful.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > Professor Ken Friedman, PhD, DSc (hc), FDRS | University Distinguished
> > Professor | Dean, Faculty of Design |Swinburne University of Technology |
> > Melbourne, Australia | [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]> | Ph: +61 3 9214 6078 | Faculty
> > www.swinburne.edu.au/design<http://www.swinburne.edu.au/design>
> >
> > --
> >
> > Susan Stewart wrote:
> >
> > —snip—
> >
> > Perhaps the difference between agency and intention is being blurred in
> > what has been said about the insights that ANT can bring to thinking
> about
> > design.
> >
> > Post-humanist approaches to thinking about agency challenge the
> assumption
> > that human agency is independent of non-human agencies. The approach to
> > understanding action and change that is forwardedwithin ANT is one that
> > treats human and non-human actors as symmetrical (ieequally significant).
> > Non-human actors not only have agency, but also act on us. Our intentions
> > (among other things) are shaped by the agency of non-humans.
> >
> > Tony Fry’s conception of ‘ontological design’ similarly recognises the
> > agency of non-human (and, specifically, designed) things. He emphasises
> > that designed things have an agency in excess of the agency we intend
> them
> > to have. The unforseen ways in which the designed things that we bring
> into
> > the world re-shape that world, need to be recognised as being at least as
> > significant (probably more significant) than the foreseen and intended
> ways
> > in which they re-shape the world.
> >
> > Fry and Latour belong to slightly different intellectual traditions, but
> > both are heirs to the critique of the Cartesian distinction between
> subject
> > and object. This critique, which is central to Heidegger’s work,
> underpins
> > the diverse conversations of continental philosophy during the second
> half
> > of the 20th century.
> >
> > Personally, I find these insights to be of enormous importance in
> relation
> > to thinking about design.
> >
> > —snip—
> >
>
> UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F
> DISCLAIMER: This email message and any accompanying attachments may
> contain confidential information.
> If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate,
> distribute or copy this message or
> attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete
> this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the
> individual sender, except where the
> sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the
> University of Technology Sydney.
> Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects.
>
> Think. Green. Do.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
--
UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F
DISCLAIMER: This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or
attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the University of Technology Sydney.
Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects.
Think. Green. Do.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
|