She worked part time through University to allow her to get by. Admittedly, Cardiff is one of the cheapest University cities in terms of cost of living.
And I don't think that industry 'expects' this from people at all. I was just pointing out that for some people, these opportunities are useful and desirable. For those that don't think it is worth it, they can just not apply.
Rhys
--
Rhys Phillips
Lightning, Electrostatics & EMH
x4704
-----Original Message-----
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Martha Robinson
Sent: 28 June 2012 17:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed term, British Science Association
"I have a friend who purposely saved her entire student loan throughout her three years at university in Cardiff in order that she could undertake a 12 month unpaid internship in London upon graduating - she knew that internship would give her the experience and contacts necessary to get the job she wanted at the end of it. And she did."
Kudos to your friend (and she is lucky to have had some other source of income to fund her so she could save her student loan), but if you can't see why this is an unacceptable thing to 'expect' from people in any industry, or why it's not in any way meritocratic, then I think the disagreement between us is too vast to be solved on a mailing list.
On 28 June 2012 16:13, Phillips, Rhys <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> This job requires that the person applying has some secondary source of income - another job, life savings, parents, etc. This should be unacceptable.
People who study full time often have to work part time to ensure they have enough money to get by. There will of course be some people who are interested in this position enough to do the same whilst undertaking the position even on a minimum wage. I have a friend who purposely saved her entire student loan throughout her three years at university in Cardiff in order that she could undertake a 12 month unpaid internship in London upon graduating - she knew that internship would give her the experience and contacts necessary to get the job she wanted at the end of it. And she did.
As has been said elsewhere, nobody is being forced to apply. I volunteer at Radio Cardiff - I spend around 12 hours a week doing stuff there for absolutely no pay at all. Nobody is forcing me to - I do it because I love it and it gets me experience in broadcasting. I also give up about 6 hours/week volunteering for the IET and about 2-3 hours/week (on average over a month) of my own time as a STEM Ambassador. Yes I have a full time paid job so I can afford to spend this much time doing unpaid work but even if I didn't, I am not being taken advantage of - they are all positions that from the outside are clearly unpaid. For all three I enjoy the work and see benefits personally.
Rhys
--
Rhys Phillips
Lightning, Electrostatics & EMH
x4704
-----Original Message-----
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Martha Robinson
Sent: 28 June 2012 14:05
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed term, British Science Association
Being better than an unpaid internship is not the same as being good. All jobs in London should pay the London Living Wage, because that's how much people need to be paid to continue living and working in London (self-evidently).
This job requires that the person applying has some secondary source of income - another job, life savings, parents, etc. This should be unacceptable.
On 28 June 2012 13:39, adam mussett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
There are 2 things that one needs to remember.
Joey doesn't share food
Adam doesn't work for free.
I agree it's much better than an internship, but why give up all benefits for 1 month.
A freelancer won't touch this because of the awful pay.
Such a short term, on such awful pay only really attracts people living the tory ideal; supported by parents
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:33:12
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed
term, British Science Association
I whole-heartedly concur with Ollie.
I am desperately trying to break into sports nutrition, and have applied for interns of 9months- 1 year that are unpaid!
This is very short term at the British Science Association and as it represents a great experience would no doubt get an influx of applications with no wage!
Sarah
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:28:53 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed term, British Science Association
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> I think it's great that the Association is still offering positions like this in such an uncertain budgetary climate. Giving someone the chance to actually get relevant experience and earn some money as well is something which isn't too common these days.
>
> I doubt keen young sci-commers looking for a foothold would turn their noses up and it sounds like that's who the Association is looking for. Lots of strong careers have started in that place thanks to the things you learn there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of hayley frend
> Sent: 28 June 2012 13:14
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed term, British Science Association
>
> True but then this position could easily have been offered as an
> (evil) unpaid internship which would be the main alternative for someone looking for experience.
> If you really need experience minimum wage for a month may be worth it.
>
> Hayley
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:39 PM, adam mussett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I reckon you'll get more takers if you pay london living wage rather than minimum wage!
> >
> > I couldn't afford to get out of bed for that!
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Toby Shannon <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:35:06
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: [PSCI-COM] Job vacancy: Science in Society Assistant, Fixed
> > term,
> > British Science Association
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Please see below the details of a current vacancy, and feel free to circulate to anyone you feel might be interested. We're looking for an enthusiastic, energetic new recruit to support the busy Science in Society programme - we feel that this role would particularly suit someone new to the field of public engagement and looking for more experience.
> >
> > British Science Association
> >
> > JOB TITLE: Science in Society Assistant REPORTING TO: Science in
> > Society Manager
> > BASED: Wellcome Wolfson Building, Queens Gate, London, SW7 5HD
> > TERMS: Full time 35 hours per week. Fixed term contract from 30th July
> > - 21st September 2012
> > SALARY: £6.08 per hour
> >
> >
> > This full time position will support the Science in Society (SiS) team in the planning, promotion and delivery of the Science in Society (SIS) activities, in particular those which will be delivered during the British Science Festival, namely x-change and Strictly Engineering. The Assistant will be an integral part of the team and will be asked to work on a range of projects and activities as well as be involved in the marketing, evaluation and administration of SiS activities.
> >
> > For further details on how to apply, visit
> >
> > www.britishscienceassociation.org/jobs
> > <http://www.britishscienceassociation.org/jobs>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System
> > on behalf of
> > the British Science Association
> > (http://www.britishscienceassociation.org)
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list
> > archive, can be found at the list web site:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
> > You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
> >
> > Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
> > It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
> > and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
> >
> > Email commands:
> > 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example,
> > send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
> >
> > set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
> >
> > 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
> >
> > set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
> >
> > 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
> >
> > leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
> >
> > Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
> > Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
> > To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > **********************************************************************
>
>
>
> --
> Hayley Frend
> Wellcome Trust 4 Year PhD Programme in Stem Cell Biology.
>
> Follow me @HayleyFrend
> http://twitter.com/HayleyFrend
>
> **********************************************************************
> Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
> You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
>
> Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
> It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
> and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
>
> Email commands:
> 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
>
> set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
>
> 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
>
> set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
>
> 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
>
> leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
>
> Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
> Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
> To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
>
> **********************************************************************
>
> **********************************************************************
> Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
> You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
>
> Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
> It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
> and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
>
> Email commands:
> 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example,
> send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
>
> set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
>
> 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
>
> set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
>
> 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
>
> leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
>
> Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
> Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
> To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
>
> **********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands:
1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example,
send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************
********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands:
1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example,
send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************
********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html
You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site.
Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'.
It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html
and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html
Email commands:
1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example,
send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message:
set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens]
2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens]
3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message:
leave psci-com -- [include hyphens]
Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate.
Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com.
To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask]
**********************************************************************
|
