Interesting, Andrew - thanks for the link.

Best,
Sabina

Sabina Magliocco
Professor
Department of Anthropology
California State University - Northridge
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________________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andrew Francis [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?

See here Sabina for something accessible on southern hemisphere australian aborignials and left/right directions (or not). Although this doesn't quite answer your question, my interest is piqued and I will see what's i can find out :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_direction

Of course, as I/we (european influenced pagans) typically place the alter to south/earth in southern hemisphere, sunwise is anti clockwise and Sol travels from east to west in the northern part ofmthensky most of the year.


On 19/05/2012, at 22:18, Paul Huson <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

I also suspect that in Latin (Indo-European?) influenced cultures, the well known folkloric maxim to perform constructive rites “turning to the right” (dexter, right, skilful, propitious, favorable, opportune) - which naturally results in a clockwise drawn circle – as opposed to “turning to the left” (sinister, left, wrong, perverse, unfavorable, adverse) resulting in widdershins for destructive/deconstructive rites - might be the simplest explanation for the belief, without having to employ any esoteric philosophical explanations.

Paul H.
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From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kevin Davis
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?

I think you might be onto something here besides the Sun to Earth connection: A circle drawn with either hand will tend to be done inwards first, then out..this may be an unconscious factor since most people are right-handed.

Kevin L. Davis

--- On Thu, 5/17/12, Erica Obey <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

From: Erica Obey <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, May 17, 2012, 3:19 PM

Interesting question.  I’m left-handed and I actually tend to whip things clockwise – I think from unconsciously imitating my right-handed parents.  I’m a good cook, but my kitchen skills are miserable and I tend to leave everything like chopping and peeling to my right-handed husband.  A lot of kitchen things are subtly right-hand biased – everything from peelers to can-openers to even certain kinds of cutting boards.  I don’t know about other lefties, but I’ve adopted at least some of those biases unconsciously in the kitchen and other places (my handwriting’s ghastly) and, as a result am not a dexterous (pun intended) person.



Erica



From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?



Sabina:

If someone in the family (assuming they weren't exposed as infants for being "other") was left-handed, would they have been under the same regulation? I tend to think we whip cream clockwise because our strong hand is the right, and to beat the cream in the opposing direction would be too awkward, being toward the chest rather than away. Do those who are lefthanded here whip cream in different directions? And what is the Italian for counterclockwise? Verso sinestra?



Enjoying the speculation!

Tom



From: "Magliocco, Sabina" <[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?

Pitch,

You're absolutely right: I, too, only learned the terms "deosil" and "widdershins" from literature: the former when I began to study modern Paganisms, while the latter, oddly, from a children's book.

The terminology that was used to admonish me on my stirring was "verso destra" (to the right, meaning clockwise).  You can see how this would work if you imagine yourself whipping cream or eggs in a bowl, as your hand would move towards the right.  So this also links up with European/ Western associations of right with good and left with "sinister," backwards or inauspicious.

This analogy is harder to argue when dancing, because the circle moves to the participants' left.  Still, the line or circle as a whole is turning towards the right.

What I'd like to know is whether the indigenous peoples of the southern hemisphere had beliefs and practices about the "correct" or preferred form of movement for everyday activities being to the left.

Best,
Sabina

Sabina Magliocco
Professor
Department of Anthropology
California State University - Northridge
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From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Pitch [[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Is the direction of circumambulation affected by hemisphere?

Aloha,

On 5/16/2012 11:41 AM, Magliocco, Sabina wrote:

>This is essentially correct. In European folklore, deosil movement has positive >associations, and widdershins negative ones. [edit] Thus, widdershins movement is >popularly understood as a symbolic inversion of deosil movement -- something that
>undoes good outcomes, or that is performed by beings in a counter-world.

>It makes sense that this general tendency was incorporated into Craft fairly early on,
>since it was part of the habitus of its creators. It doesn't mean, however, that we are >bound by that tradition forever.

My uncertain recollection is that I learned the association of
clockwise/sunwise rotation from my family (who'd immigrated
from Northern Europe, the British Isles, mostly). And from child's
play sources, most likely several years of "folk" dancing classes at
summer day camps (pointedly multi-cultural across European,
American, and Asian dances, but probably not all that authentic
as to form and execution).

But I'm pretty sure that I learned the terminological pairing--"deosil-
widdershins"--from book sources. I want to say from some science
fiction or fantasy book, since I was an avid fan. But it also could have
been from some popular book on witchcraft and magic, more of which
I read than most of my hometown age mates.

But nobody ever uttered those terms in my hearing then. Not even
the person who first taught me lots about magical practices.

The association of prosperous and good outcomes with clockwise/
sunwise movement seems to be much more widespread in the popular
culture of Western America than the particular "deosil"/"widdershins"
terminology. I imagine that this equally holds true for European
immigrants to the Southern Hemisphere.

My question is--Did not-so-magically-motivated rotational movements
such as those Sabina mentioned--cooking, folk dance, and the like--
alter in the Southern Hemisphere? Or is the circumambulation problem
limited to magical or religious contexts?

Musing Which Way To Turn? Rose,

Pitch