Dear Keith,

We agree, but there are nuances I’d like to bring out. Social
scientists do start from the premise that things are what they are. Many
social scientists also design the future, though, and they, too, are
concerned with what could or should be. Those involved with the sciences
of the artificial are interested in what could be. Those who in creating
the artificial also start from things as they are, precisely because
they must understand the world to influence or to change it.

In this thread, Don and Terry attempted to describe the current state
of design and engineering, including design education and engineering
education. To say that Terry described what could or should be is
correct. Stating that what should be in the future is the case today is
incorrect, and it will not lead to change even if we agree on some
aspects of what should be.

Don described the situation as it is today more accurately. A clear
understanding of the current situation as it is will bring attention to
“the gap between current professional practice and some ideal
potential future state” most effectively.

On one issue, I remain clear. Terry labeled Don’s ideas out-of-date
and simplistic. If this were true – which it is not – then one might
say, “If Don’s ideas are out-of-date and simplistic, then his
proposals for a solution will not be useful.”

In asserting that Don’s description is correct, I am opening room for
a reasoned and robust dialogue on what we might do to move the current
situation to a preferred future state. I argue that Don has observed
these issues more closely across a greater range of cases at a higher
level of expertise, and has also offered useful proposals on how to
improve and change the situation in twenty books and several hundred
articles.

Moving the field forward takes time. Design and engineering seem to
progress, as Max Planck said of science, “funeral by funeral.”
People move off and retire, clearing the way to new ideas and practices.
If this were not so, you’d see more ideas by Terry and by Don at work
in our field today.

As it is, I’m not challenging Terry’s proposals for a better field.
I have not addressed them. Neither have I addressed Don’s proposals. 

My purpose in entering the debate was to say that Don’s description
was accurate. A good description is the place to start a robust debate.
As the Danish engineer and designer Jens Bernsen said, “The problem
comes first.” If we cannot identify the problem, we cannot solve it.

Best regards,

Ken

Professor Ken Friedman, PhD, DSc (hc), FDRS | University Distinguished
Professor | Dean, Faculty of Design | Swinburne University of Technology
| Melbourne, Australia | [log in to unmask] | Ph: +61 3 9214 6078 |
Faculty www.swinburne.edu.au/design

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Keith Russell wrote:

--snip--

The social scientists might start from the premise that things are what
they are. For those involved with the sciences of the artificial, things
are what they could be.

That is, as design educators, as designers, as engineers, as humans, we
are all interested in bringing about the changes in circumstances and
things that will lead to changes in what IS such that our lives are
different if not always better.

As an educator I am constantly drawing the attention of students to the
gap between current professional practice and some ideal potential
future state. Having examples to show students of alternative ways of
going is a major part of my theoretical and research work. Students
don't like to be told, over and again, of the bad aspects of their
professions regardless of whether or not these are the dominant reality
in today's professional world. For example, I suggest that female
designers look at working examples on non-sexist design studios rather
than going over and over the survival instructions for how to get along
in a bully boy world.

I can concur with everything that Don has said on this topic, and
everything that Terry has said on this topic. That is, this is a key
issue deserving close attention. We all turn old and fixed in our social
circles unless we bother to attempt to stay young by hanging around with
a crowd of varied and divergent souls such as inhabit this list. I know
that's why I like this list.

--snip--