medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
On 03/11/2011 17:15, Christopher Crockett wrote:
> From: John Briggs<[log in to unmask]>
>
>> Parish formation is, of course, quite late (12th century?) The parishes
> replace both proprietary chapels and multi-clergy churches ("minsters")
> - none of which were monastic.
>
>> The situation in France can't have been totally different - it was the
> bishop who had jurisdiction over the parish clergy, which would have
> been difficult if the churches were of monastic origin.
>
>
> maybe i'm reading my sources wrong and am in desperate need of Correction,
> John.
>
> the best way that i know of to get an overview of what the situation in France
> was is to take a look at the _pouillés_ --a kind of census of ecclesiastical
> property in each diocese, arranged geographically by archdeaconry/deaconry,
> giving (at a minimum) the income of the place, the "beneficia" (in early ones)
> or "patroni" (essentially, the "owners," often the "founders").
>
> these have been published by the Academie des Inscriptions et Belles Lettres,
> in quite a few volumes.
>
> volume 4 gives us those from Chartres viewable/downloadable here:
>
> http://www.archive.org/details/recueildeshist04acad
>
>
> i've chosen two pages at random (200-201), from the "Pouillé de la fin du XVe
> siecle."
The end of the 15th century is rather late. I think it would be a
mistake to call the patrons "owners" - or even "founders". How do we
know that lay patrons (or even founders) haven't simply given the
advowson to a monastery? Perhaps following objections to lay
investiture? Or slowly over the centuries?
Or given the whole manor (if you have those in France) complete with its
church to the monastery - and at a quite late date? (This is probably
the case for monastic patrons outside the diocese.)
How many of the priories are actual priories, and how many of them are
just cells? Do you have granges in France? (Alien priories in England
are often just cells with a residence for the titular prior, and
probably no church. Hayling [i.e. South Hayling] was a priory of
Jumièges - which has prompted a search for the priory builings and
church. It has eventually dawned upon everyone that there was no priory
- other than a residence for the prior - and no church other than the
parish church.)
John Briggs
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