medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: HenkADSL <[log in to unmask]>
>I doubt if eccles[ias]tical courts had gallows, as they were not allowed to
pronounce death sentences.
?
the several victims of the Inquisition will be relieved to hear that, Hank.
aside from "heresy" i know not what --if any-- "capital" crimes [i.e., crimes
punishable by death] there were under Canon Law.
and, i would suppose, only proceedings involving violations of Canon Law could
be rightly said to come before "ecclesiastical courts."
the point i was trying to make previously was that --and i'm just *assuming*
here, being unencumbered by any real knowledge of the subject-- the Bishop and
(collectively) Chapter had courts which tried cases under what might be
thought of as purely Civil Law.
this would have been their prerogative as (quite substantial) owners of land
(justice rights being tied to land ownership, as were the serfs who "served"
the land).
these courts could, i suppose, be termed "ecclesiastical" in as much as they
were held before ecclesiastics, but were not "ecclesiastical courts" in the
sense that they were dealing with ecclesiastical (canon) --rather than civil--
law.
the "capitalis dominus" had the rights to High Justice --which included the
capital crimes of murder and arson, and i suspect that the Bishop & Chapter
were capitalis domini of much of the land which they held.
so, i would propose amending your statement above, "ecclesiastical
courts...were not allowed to pronounce death sentences," on the grounds that:
1) those tried for Heresy before "ecclesiastical courts" were sentenced to
death and turned over to the "secular arm" for the implementation of their
sentence. (or, if heresy *was* a capital violation of civil law, was the
ecclesiastical court just handing the hapless heretic over to the secular arm
bereft of any ecclesiastical protection?)
b) courts held by ecclesiastics (literally "ecclesiastical courts" by their
make up, but not by the type of violation being tried), when trying matters
under civil law, *could* pronounce death sentences within the custom embodied
in the civil law.
if the latter was the case, did these courts implement the sentence or, as
with heresy, simply use the Secular Arm to do their handiwork?
>So gallows in church yards, being church property and exempt are unlikely.
i would submit that, in many/most places, the "open area before a church" was,
under both canon and civil law, "church property."
specifically, at Chartres, the whole area around the cathedral --the rather
large "cathedral close" (cloi^tre)-- was under the control of (i.e., the
property of) the chapter and/or bishop.
this certainly included the "open area before" the church.
hence my surprise at Jim's informing me that there was a gallows to the
immediate south west of the cathedral.
c
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Christopher Crockett
> Verzonden: woensdag 26 oktober 2011 20:09
> Aan: [log in to unmask]
> Onderwerp: Re: [M-R] Theft of metal from UK churches
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> From: HenkADSL <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > Most medieval cities had multi persons' gallows outside of the town,
>
> but i've heard the *those* suburban gallows were for "show" only, since ">
> Usually, after being hanged, the corpses were moved out of town to the
> gallows hill where they hung until they dropped off."
>
> which is it?
>
> > "Long ago, rue de la Grange-aux-Belles, on the north side of the
> > Hôpital
> St-Louis, was a dusty track leading uphill, past fields, en route to
> Germany. Where no. 53 now stands, a path led to the top of a small hillock.
> Here, in 1325, on the king's orders, an enormous gallows was built,
> consisting of a plinth 6m high, on which stood sixteen stone pillars each
> 10m high. These were joined by chains, from which malefactors were hanged
in
> clusters. They were left there until they disintegrated, by way of example,
> and they stank so badly that when the wind blew from the northeast they
> infected the nostrils of the still far-off city. The practice continued
> until the seventeenth century. Bones and other remains from the pit into
> which they were thrown were found during the building of a garage in 1954".
>
>
>
> may i quote you on that?
>
> c
>
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