Maybe a Fire-Elemental would serve more effectively.
On 6/7/11 12:53, "Paul Green" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I was intrigued by Tim Allen's reference to the Black Mass. Does he mean
> the classic C19 Parisian Black Mass, as evoked by Huysmans, Summers et al,
> complete with virgin, or he is a closet Thelemite, attending the Gnostic
> Mass devised by the Master Therion 666, which is not really black at all,
> more a deep shade of purple. And then there's the Mass of Chaos, devised by
> the Initiates of Thanateros...
>
> You don't really need a Mass, as such, to inter-act astrally with Mr
> Lumsden. An Invocation to Bartzabel should do the trick.
>
> Frater P
>
>
> On 6/7/11 12:31, "David Lace" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I'm amazed at how Lumsden got that job, too. Chris must have been going
>> through a mid-life crisis or something when he appointed him. To think that
>> Lumsden has the responsibility of vetting any avant-garde poetry submissions
>> from those poets still anxious to be associated with Salt is almost parodic.
>> Chris must have a sense of humour after all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 Jul 2011, at 11:33, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> Yes well, thanks for reminding us of this David. Anyway I have always
>> reserved my opinion of Lumsdon for when I attend black mass. I'd
>> forgotten the 'bristly old guard bit' - and yes I have been bristly
>> since I was 20.
>>
>> The main trouble with what he says, as befits a polemicist, is to
>> conflate two different things - the slow death of the listservs and
>> his very low opinion of the avant garde.
>>
>> He was right about the problems caused when Mallin and Byrne became
>> the moderators - Rupert Mallin was not really interested in innovative
>> poetry, old or new, and Mairead Byrne, although she had enthusiasms
>> for what was happening in the States (where she had moved to) had very
>> little knowledge about the British scene, and didn't seem to
>> understand what any of us were talking about. Add to this the fact
>> that both of them were highly opinionated people (not 'hands off'
>> moderators in other words) the result was friction and frustration for
>> all concerned.
>>
>> I still post here when something comes up that catches my attention -
>> most of the time the list is very quiet, which suits me, because then
>> I get some work done. I haven't moved on to the blogs etc yet, I just
>> haven't bothered and I might never bother. Part of the problem there
>> is that there are so many of them - therefore they don't provide the
>> same kind of focus as the listservs did. If this list closed down then
>> I would probably bit by bit begin to use the blogs.
>>
>> A question to anyone out there - do any of you know how and why
>> Lumsdon became poetry editor at Salt? One of the most vocal critics of
>> the innovative scene becomes the editor of what a few years back was
>> the main vehicle for that scene - a coincidence?????
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Tim A.
>>
>> On 5 Jul 2011, at 21:37, David Lace wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, but I just can't resist posting this here:
>>>
>>>
>>> "[...] As for wider comments about BritPo and the listservs, I have
>>> some to make...
>>>
>>> The email based listservs have now had their day. I think any
>>> connection between the booming health of UKLIP and the crapulous
>>> BritPo is unproductive though. Even forums like this one will
>>> probably be dead in another five-ten years and I don't want to take
>>> anything away from the important, exciting business of connecting
>>> disparate minds which was done by poetryetc, britpo, wompo and the
>>> rest. But it's time to knock some of those old forums on the head -
>>> they have mainly become ad sites and, in the case of petc, just
>>> another terrible-poem-post site.
>>>
>>> As to Britpo specifically, it has been a soap opera with a dwindling
>>> audience for years. The reasons for this are complex and would take
>>> long explanations which would be as tedious as trying to explain
>>> Hollyoaks to someone who hasn't seen it since '02. A few reasons are
>>> obvious though...
>>>
>>> - as I've said before, though set up as a discussion forum for poets
>>> writing outside of the mainstream, all too often it has been a crap-
>>> shoot for puppies humping the ankles of the mainstream, and that has
>>> never been stamped on as much as it should have been - it has put a
>>> lot of LIP poets off joining and being tarred with that stick
>>>
>>> - none of the younger innovative poets want anything to do with
>>> britpo - and its whiff of jazz, elbow patches, fag-smoke and 70s
>>> politics - it's like walking in on your old folks doing it!
>>>
>>> - the major reason for its demise is the demise of the list-serv,
>>> but second was the change of moderators to Byrne and Rupert Mallin
>>> some time back - perfectly credible choices in some ways, but, well,
>>> not exactly 'innovative' poets, given the list's focus. Mallin had
>>> also, near to the changeover, made some disparaging comments about
>>> the state of UK/I innovative poetry - the last straw for many of the
>>> bristly old guard like Upton, Allen and Riley.
>>>
>>> - most of the posters who plaster their ads and poems over the site
>>> clearly never read the rest and don't contribute to the community -
>>> this sleazy practice ought to have a name really - I'm sure it does!
>>>
>>> - most of the posters left there have never even heard of most of
>>> the fabulous newer poets writing innovative poetry in the US, UK and
>>> elsewhere (and this will be splendidly proved by a clear lack of
>>> response to Chris' new post there asking about what is going on now
>>> - expect tumbleweeds). And most of them, oddly, are not even
>>> innovative poets but old bores of the self-appointed maverick
>>> tendency!
>>>
>>> Time to put it quietly to sleep I think, as happened with
>>> Crossroads, which had more credibility and distinctly more viewers."
>>>
>>>
>>> http://z11.invisionfree.com/Poets_On_Fire/index.php?showtopic=627
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