medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> The church of Saint Nicholas, now used as the parish church, was not the
women's church,
for some reason i thought that that was the case --that the present church was
not the main one, the seat of the priory.
>which has been nearly entirely torn down, but was the church used by the
men--at some times as many as 12-- for their devotions. The monks were there
to serve as connections with the outside world and to conduct mass and see to
other spiritual needs. Sometimes there is reference
to Marcigny as a double monastery because of the men's presence.
a fairly common practice, apparently, to have a men's contingent attached to
the main (women's) institution.
somewhat similar situation existed with the church of St. Peter's of Soissons,
just east of the cathedral, which was the male member (as it were) attached to
the convent of St. Mary's of Soissons, itself largely destroyed --St. Peter's
partly survives, with a very interesting (though mostly ruined) portal
sporting a rare continuous narrative capital frieze:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7741261c/f1.highres
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/memoire/0023/sap01_mh028117_p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/memoire/0012/sap01_mh086186_p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/memoire/0038/sap01_mh075460_p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/memoire/1787/sap01_mh0024040_p.jpg
on the portal, see:
Clark Maines, “Le Portail mutile de St.-Pierre-au-Parvis, Soissons (Aisne):
Reconstitution iconographique,” Revue archéologique de Picardie, IV, 1982,
pp. 178-198.
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/pica_0752-5656_1982_num_4_1_1371
>From the first, it was intended to have 99 women; Hugh of Semur, then abbot
of Cluny, set that out in his original plan.
> Also part of the plan was that each woman be older than 20 and be "noble."
yes, that is my sense of the place --a retirement home for ladies like
Countess Adela of Chartres. in her case, as much as anything, to get her out
of the hair of her by-then (c. 1125) grown son, Count Theobald. a formidable
lady, apparently.
> I think Jean Richard has published as much of the cartulary of Marcigny as
still exists, if that is of interest.
Jean Richard, Le cartulaire de Marcigny-sur-Loire, 1045-1144; essai de
reconstitution d'un manuscrit disparu.
Dijon, Impr. Bernigaud et Privat, 1957.
apparently his thèse complémentaire at the Sorbonne.
there is also this brief article:
Jean Richard, “Sur l’histoire du prieuré de Marcigny aux 11e et 12e
siècles,” Mélanges d’Histoire et d’Archéologie offerts au professeur
K. J. Conant par l’association Splendide Bourgogne (Macon: Editions
Bourgogne Rhônes Alpes, 1977), pp. 135-140.
there is also this:
Regina Hausmann. Das Martyrologium von Marcigny-sur-Loire : Edition einer
Quelle zur cluniacensischen Heiligenverehrung am Ende des elften Jahrhunderts.
Freiburg: Hochschul Verlag, 1984.
which i happen to have a copy of at home, though i've not looked at it in this
millennium.
and this rather substantial looking item:
Else Maria Wischermann, Marcigny-sur-Loire: Gründungs- und Frühgeschichte
des ersten Cluniacenserinnenpriorates, 1055-1150: Bestandteil des
Quellenwerkes, Societas et fraternitas (Münstersche Mittelalter-Schriften,
Bd. 42). München: W. Fink, 1986.
which i've not seen but appears to be partly consultable (searchable) here:
http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015034339484
in a nearly worthless fashion --you can search in the text, but it only
returns the number of times your search word appears, not the text itself.
duh.
and this somewhat long-in-the-tooth item:
Jean-Baptiste Derost. Raingarde de Semur: une religieuse bénédictine de
Marcigny au XIIe siècle. Marcigny: J.-B. Derost, 1924.
and, for the Hard Core Marcignyiac:
Brousse. Mémoire pour dame Eléonore Du Maine du Bourg, prieure du
monastère de la Sainte-Trinité de Marcigny, et les dames religieuses de ce
monastère,... contre messire Dominique de La Rochefoucault, grand vicaire du
diocèse de Bourges, et Charles-Nicolas de Chaumont, tous deux prétendants
droit au prieuré de Marcigny.Paris: imp. de Paulus-du-Mesnil, 1746.
from which it appears that the convent was dedicated to the Trinity, not the
Virgin.
>It's referred to in many places, but I quote from the very much missed Jo Ann
McNamara's book, Sisters in Arms: Catholic nuns through two millennia p. 217:
"When Abbot Hugh founded Marcigny in 1056, he provided for no abbess. Her
place (the seat of the hundredth sister) was delegated to the Virgin Mary."
curious.
i don't think i've ever come across suchlike before. (which means nothing.)
> But I think your point that just because this is so, that is, that there was
no abbess, does not mean that is the reason she was called a prioress.
no, she was styled "prioress" because *all* substantial institutions connected
to Cluny were priories, headed by either a prior (if male) or prioress (if
female), all subject to the Abbot of the Mother House of the order, at Cluny.
nest pa?
c
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Christopher Crockett [log in to unmask]
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:04:50 -0400
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] female priories
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> From: "Cormack, Margaret Jean" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> >What is interesting about this one [Marcigny] is that it provides and
[sic:
> an] "excuse" for the (unusually large?) priory being a priory!
>
>
> i have never heard what the actual size of the Cluniac priory of Marcigny
> was
> --probably quite large, but perhaps not as large as some of the male
> priories
> (St. Martin-des-Champs, La Charité-sur-Loire, Paray-le-Monial, etc.).
>
> i don't know if the present early 12th c. church in the town
> --which is good size but not as large as any of the above-- was the priory
> church or not.
>
> http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/29032297.jpg
>
> in any event, it was certainly a prestigious house, catering to the most
> aristocratic ladies in the land --Countess Adela of Blois/Chartres retired
> there, as did the widow of one of the Viscounts of Chartres.
>
> but, i've always assumed that it was "merely" a priory because *that* was
> the
> nature of the Cluniac system: only one abbot (at Cluny), with priors (or
> prioresses) heading up all the daughter houses in the order.
>
> this idea of the Virgin as "abbess" is a new one to me --which might very
> well
> be true, but certainly was not the reason why Marcigny (or any of the male
> priories) was a "mere" priory.
>
> c
>
>
>
> > From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture on behalf of [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Mon 6/20/2011 12:14
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] female priories
> >
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > The head of the priory of Marcigny (founded in 1054) was always referred
> to
> > as a prioress. The
> > ostensible reason was that the abbess was the Virgin Mary, at least that
> > was the reason given in some
> > accounts. There were to be 99 women, and the hundredth, the Virgin, the
> > abbess.
> > Judith Rosenberg
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Cormack, Margaret Jean [log in to unmask]
> > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 07:49:35 -0400
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] female priories
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > Greetings all!
> > Probably all list members are familiar with Chaucer's prioress, so we
know
> > such an office existed in
> > female religious houses. My question is, however, whether there is a
> > recognized terminology for a
> > female priory, i.e. a religious house headed by a prioress rather than an
> > abbess?
> > Meg
> >
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