medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Paul, Many thanks for this information, which is much, much more
plausible. (Although I note that the statement "Received the minor
orders and the diaconate, together with his cousin Juan de Borja Lanzol
de Romaní, future cardinal, March 26, 1494" is not reflected [or
confirmed] in the entry for the latter!)
Some of Cheney's dates don't tie up - including the date of Cesare's
death! (Which makes a nonsense of the mechanically calculated
durations.) I am standing by "demonstrably inaccurate", and am wondering
about upgrading "half-witted" :-)
If anything at all happened to Cesare at the age of 7 or 8, I would
suggest that it was receiving the tonsure.
John Briggs
On 09/04/2011 02:01, Paul Chandler wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> John, Salvador Miranda's useful site on cardinals states that Cesare
> received minor orders and diaconate on 26 March 1494, and that he was never
> ordained priest or consecrated bishop:<
> http://www2.fiu.edu/~mirandas/bios1493.htm#Borgia> (you have to page down a
> bit). He was made protonotary apostolic in his childhood (1482), which is a
> more plausible scenario than being ordained a priest at 8, as you have said.
> So, if Miranda is credible -- he gives a solid bibliography but not
> footnotes for particular statements -- the answer to your original question
> is that Cesare was ordained a deacon. I don't have the resources to check
> further.
>
> Some of the defects of Cheney's site which you point out are due to its
> tabular database format and see-by-see structure. So, for example, the
> "Archbishop Emeritus" tag seems to be merely an indication that the person
> did not die in the particular office recorded in that entry. Cesare's
> childhood nomination as protonotary appears to have been misleadingly
> recorded in the ordination field. "Half-witted" may be a bit harsh, but it's
> a salutary warning of the shortcomings of the format. -- Paul
>
>
> On 9 April 2011 01:00, John Briggs<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>> On 08/04/2011 15:49, Paul Chandler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's hard to know why you would say "the whole entry is demonstrably
>>> inaccurate" and then not demonstrate anything. Cheney's site seems to be
>>> based on the usual sources, Gams, Eubel, and so on, so some argument would
>>> seem necessary before dismissing an entry out of hand.
>>>
>>
>> (a) It lists Cesare as resigning as Archbishop of Valencia on 17 Aug 1498,
>> but not as Cardinal [the whole point was that he was resigning *all* his
>> ecclesiastical offices. He is famous for being the first cardinal to
>> resign.]
>> (b) It states "Note/Previous Titular See: (renounced holy orders)" which is
>> compatible with neither (a) nor the claim that he was ordained priest.
>> (c) It describes him as "Archbishop Emeritus of Valencia" - which is
>> half-witted at best.
>>
>>
>> John Briggs
>>
>>
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